• Saganastic
    link
    fedilink
    32 years ago

    They used to be. And then people decided carriages were more convenient than walking. And then people decided cars were more convenient than carriages.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      12 years ago

      And then people demanded lots of paved raceways for their cars, which filled up, and made things dangerous for everybody, and worthwhile places far apart, and most of the drivers angry and miserable. Now, the world is on fire, mental health and social cohesion has gone to shit, and all those paved raceways are falling apart because nobody can afford to fix them.

      But, yeah, the first part of that story is cute.

        • @[email protected]
          link
          fedilink
          English
          12 years ago

          Aye, it does sound that way until you start digging into it. The traffic congestion, the road rage, and the rising rate of traffic fatalities are just obvious.

          Think about it more, and work-from-home is still a big fight after the pandemic because people hate commuting. It’s pretty obvious when looking around out on the road; driving does not make drivers happy on the whole. The world is literally on fire; we had weeks of air-quality alerts around here because of record-breaking Canadian wildfires. Driving everywhere cuts off interactions with other people, the “weak ties” in a community that we now know are essential to countering the loneliness epidemic. In fact, the opioid epidemic is related, because opioids simulate the same brain receptors as social connectedness. And, of course, American infrastructure consistently gets failing grades because we don’t maintain it. We would, but state and municipal budgets are straining under the burden.

          I’m short, there’s tons of justification to “fuck cars”, if you look. There’s lots more than what I’ve mentioned here.

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      12 years ago

      People didn’t really decide, an upper class was able to afford automobiles, they hit tons of people in the streets, they worked together with politicians and automakers to push to make streets for the cars for safety, and invented the term jaywalking. The people who owned cars decided streets belonged to them and through mass production and suburban development, they have become completely normalized.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        02 years ago

        This legitimately makes it safer for them to coexist, this isn’t some bad thing the lawmakers did just because they had cars. Whether or not you agree with still having cars doesn’t change that that was a good thing.

        • @[email protected]OP
          link
          fedilink
          English
          12 years ago

          At the time, many places were considering outright banning cars or at least requiring speed limiters in all cars (to limit to like 25 mph). Car companies knew this would hurt sales, so they started a PR campaign to victim blame pedestrians for pedestrian fatalities. I personally think universal speed limiters set to a quite low speed along with far fewer cars would be far better for safety than modern “rules of the road” + car domination.

          The turning point came in 1923, says Norton, when 42,000 Cincinnati residents signed a petition for a ballot initiative that would require all cars to have a governor limiting them to 25 miles per hour. Local auto dealers were terrified, and sprang into action, sending letters to every car owner in the city and taking out advertisements against the measure.

          Even while passing these laws, however, auto industry groups faced a problem: In Kansas City and elsewhere, no one had followed the rules, and they were rarely enforced by police or judges. To solve it, the industry took up several strategies.

          One was an attempt to shape news coverage of car accidents. The National Automobile Chamber of Commerce, an industry group, established a free wire service for newspapers: Reporters could send in the basic details of a traffic accident and would get in return a complete article to print the next day. These articles, printed widely, shifted the blame for accidents to pedestrians — signaling that following these new laws was important.

          Similarly, AAA began sponsoring school safety campaigns and poster contests, crafted around the importance of staying out of the street. Some of the campaigns also ridiculed kids who didn’t follow the rules — in 1925, for instance, hundreds of Detroit school children watched the “trial” of a 12-year-old who’d crossed a street unsafely, and, as Norton writes, a jury of his peers sentenced him to clean chalkboards for a week.

          This was also part of the final strategy: shame. In getting pedestrians to follow traffic laws, “the ridicule of their fellow citizens is far more effective than any other means which might be adopted,” said E.B. Lefferts, the head of the Automobile Club of Southern California in the 1920s. Norton likens the resulting campaign to the anti-drug messaging of the '80s and '90s, in which drug use was portrayed as not only dangerous but stupid.

          Auto campaigners lobbied police to publicly shame transgressors by whistling or shouting at them — and even carrying women back to the sidewalk — instead of quietly reprimanding or fining them. They staged safety campaigns in which actors dressed in 19th-century garb, or as clowns, were hired to cross the street illegally, signifying that the practice was outdated and foolish. In a 1924 New York safety campaign, a clown was marched in front of a slow-moving Model T and rammed repeatedly.

          This strategy also explains the name that was given to crossing illegally on foot: jaywalking. During this era, the word “jay” meant something like “rube” or “hick” — a person from the sticks, who didn’t know how to behave in a city. So pro-auto groups promoted use of the word “jay walker” as someone who didn’t know how to walk in a city, threatening public safety.

          https://www.vox.com/2015/1/15/7551873/jaywalking-history

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    1
    edit-2
    2 years ago

    So, is the community against all cars? Or just the ones for cities? I went to LA last month to see my brother and we went to this nice area that had blocked the street off permanently and all the restaurants and businesses had taken over the road. I. Fucking. Loved. It. All the extra space was great. So in city life, I completely get it.

    That being said… I am a car person. I have an MR2 turbo I love to death. I have a lifted F250 (I grew up on a farm in a small shithole town in SC. I know I’m considered bad here but eh, the Kia Sorento isn’t going to pull the dump trailer or the tractor and the lift is because I’m 8 at heart and still smile driving it around) and a heavily modified Jeep Cherokee I play off-road with. Plus my daily Honda Civic. Cars have souls and driving is a sense of freedom I am addicted to. I can promise you 100% of “grown ups” (age is subjective here) with loud cars isn’t to impress anyone else, it’s for us. I won’t even drive my MR2 at certain times to make sure I don’t disturb anyone and when I’m around a populated area, I shift at low RPM and keep the noise down a lot, but away from everyone in bum fuck rural America, that exhaust note is all for me.

    I get you hate cars, I even agree for the most part. But does that mean ALL cars? Am I bad here?

    • @[email protected]
      link
      fedilink
      English
      2
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Personal vehicles have a place, and a lot of people really enjoy the hobby of it. But at least what I’m against is how they’ve completely and utterly, fully enveloped our modern Life, paving over the places we have to live in the process. The auto industry has made people addicted to the concept that every place has to be accessable and beholdent to the automobile, making it inaccessible and very unpleasant for anyone who doesn’t buy into that system (pedestrians, disabled people, cyclists etc). It’s honestly a violation of personal freedom that many people can not perform their day-to-day basic functions of socializing, gathering food and working without paying into the micro transactional hell that of the Auto/Oil industry.

      Being able to go somewhere and visit worry people without dribble feeding that piggy industry with my hard earned money into gas/electricity is freeing and should be the default. If someone wants to blast down a country road listening to the purr of the engine, power to them. Forcing everyone through deliberately exclusionary infrastructural planning to pilot a few Tons of metal plastic and combustion engines just to perform basic tasks? Fuck off.

      (Edit: my bad language is not directed at you, but at the industry, you sound chill)

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        1
        edit-2
        2 years ago

        Nah man, I completely get it. Like I said above, I live in a rural shithole in SC and transportation is like 1/4rd or more of a lot of people’s income. Its easy to say “JuSt bUy SoMeThInG oLdER, yOU DoNt NeEd AnyTHiNg NiCe” but Im a technician at heart and full understand the depth of knowledge you need to properly maintain and repair an old car. If you are super duper lucky, you’ll have an uncle or brother to help you but most people are at the mercy of the shops around them and I personally have been F’d in the A because of ignorance or compliance and I know in some rather silly and not on purpose detail how a vehicle works. Public transportation doesn’t seem to be a possibility in our neck of the woods but doesn’t mean being a slave to car manufacturers is the only solution. I love the freedom, I even drive for a living now and still love it, but I’m not foolish enough to think I am not the outlier.

  • PenguinJuice
    link
    fedilink
    02 years ago

    That looks so pleasant but seems like a nightmare if you have to go long distances to somewhere specific.

    Getting groceries would also probably be a pain. You would have to probably get a wagon or something.

    • stephfinitely
      link
      fedilink
      12 years ago

      There would still be roads just not everywhere. The roads would connect communities and since these community would be built around walking you would just take public transport.

  • @[email protected]
    link
    fedilink
    English
    -12 years ago

    If you want people to abandon cars, make the alternatives better. Unfortunately I never see that happening, I only see attempts to make car travel worse. I hate public transport with a passion, because it is so bad. When I was commuting, it took an hour each way to go 13 miles, but if I tried to take public transport, it would have taken two hours each way, including 2 miles of walking on a state highway with no shoulder and no sidewalks. Would have had to take a bus to the light rail, and change trains at least once. This light rail shared the same road that cars use, so it was subject to all of the same traffic issues that cars suffered.

    • @[email protected]M
      link
      fedilink
      English
      1
      edit-2
      2 years ago

      Designing for cars forces alternatives to become worse by physically shoving apart destinations in order to fit in parking lots and more lanes. Nobody wants to walk when they have to traverse shitty parking lots to get anywhere instead of nice places, after all.

      The sort of argument you’re making is fundamentally dishonest because it’s based on the presumption that the status quo development pattern is somehow a level playing field when it is, in fact, very much unfairly catering to cars.

      See also: The Arrogance of Space

    • Lux (it/they)
      link
      fedilink
      English
      02 years ago

      This light rail shared the same road that cars use, so it was subject to all of the same traffic issues that cars suffered.

      so make the cars go somewhere else. make more public transit that comes more often. make sure everything that people need to live is within walking distance (i am not saying to confine people to one area, only to make it possible to live in that one area). make more trains, bike paths. and plaxes you can safely walk.

      • @[email protected]
        link
        fedilink
        English
        12 years ago

        so make the cars go somewhere else

        Your first suggestion Is what I hate about the car hating crowd. Remove that from your agenda. Make your alternatives better than a car without screwing over the car drivers. You will make more people accept your changes that way. Light rail in San Jose is a disaster, it does not go to useful places, and it gets there slowly. It should have been a subway so it could be independent of surface traffic.

        • Lux (it/they)
          link
          fedilink
          English
          12 years ago

          No. Making the cars go somewhere else is the most important thing. It wouldn’t screw over car drivers, because car drivers wouldn’t need cars to get everywhere. If there are fewer cars, then all other traffic is faster. Even if a train only moves at the speed that a car would have moved at, it still moves more people. The same goes for buses and trams. Bicycles and walking will still be slower than it’s possible for cars to be, but since they take up less space, they will be faster in practice. Also, without cars, everyone will be far safer, the air will be far cleaner, and cities will be far quieter. Then, when cars are gone, you won’t need parking lots. The parking lots can be turned into something useful, whether it’s housing, stores, parks, or literally anything that isn’t an asphalt slab.