Both. Fascist apologist like to cherry pick palatable characteristics of figures like Stalin, or Hitler, or Andrew Jackson in order to destigmatize thier idolatry of these figures. These “certain aspects” are the tip of the wedge they use to destroy rationality and peace.
A reasonable person who would like to discuss the benefits of communism would point to the value of labor, advantages of unions, and the dignity of the worker, not the evil, paranoid, and violent person of Stalin.
Always, the stink of fascism follows the idolization of so called “great men.” Excuses after excuses.
The Holocaust most definitely happened and was perpetuated by the Nazis. Please don’t accuse me of denial.
Communism, or to be most specific, Marxism, was most definitely aligned against Hitler.
Stalin, was not. He would have watched Hitler kill all of Europe had the Nazis not attacked Russia. Same as the united states if Japan had not attacked them.
this is incorrect. the USSR made a suggestion to Czechoslovakia to make a defensive pact in case of nazi invasion. they also suggested this to poland. the polish did not like the idea. poland teamed up with nazi germany to invade czechoslovakia, and czechoslovakia preferred the help of the west, which backstabbed them and did not assist them despite declarations to the contrary. this meant that the soviet union could not intervene early in a large alliance against nazi germany. instead, they had to rebuild after the civil war as quickly as possible. they are on record knowing the germans were going to attack well before the war.
it should also be noted that poland invaded and annexed parts of independent ukraine and russia prior to WW2. the west was hoping the nazis and poland would both invade russia together. the polish ambassador to germany was in fact favorable to handing danzig over to nazi germany, and is on record about their surprise at the attack on poland. the fact that the soviet union suggested an alliance to poland was a massive act of deference considering the recent history.
why you have an obsession about stalin is beyond me. especially in regards to advocating for violence against marginalized groups that are usually socialist ‘tankies’. the soviet union does not exist anymore. grow up.
Your historical notes are technically correct, and Stalin did even attempt to reach a pact with France to limit the potential expansion of Nazi Germany. However, once those initiatives failed, Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin’s first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
I’m not obsessed with Stalin. I’m also not a Holocaust denier. You really seem keen on saying inflammatory things about me without any preceding context.
I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
I have a beef with apologist for failed communist states like the soviet onion. I feel they deeply misrepresent socialism.
Do you deny that the west signed NAPs with the Nazis as part of the agreement prior to Czechoslovakia’s annexation, which was before Molotov-Ribbentrop? Do you also deny that the Soviet Union saved approximately 200,000 Jewish lives by annexing Eastern Poland (which was taken from Russia and Ukraine in the 20s) upon the Nazi invasion?
No why should I ? A non aggression pact is not the same than occupying another country. The Jews which were deported to other parts of the Union were in deed saved from the Nazis.
I would support any country occupying a country if it saved hundreds of thousands of lives from death by fascism, without question. If you do not, you are evil.
I am of the strong opinion that fascism doesn’t care if you call yourself a communist, a capitalist, or a Democrat. If someone promotes a state which strips the power of local and individual labor for it’s own use; cultivates violence as a means of domestic control; supports expansionism; and finally the consolidation of power under a personality; I oppose it, and call it what it is.
vague criteria. you can argue any country you dont like is under a dictatorship of whatever and is led by a cult of personality. you should be concerned about more realistic things, like supporting unions in your country, helping marginalized people, that sort of thing. not punching down at socialists.
My comments are split now, so I’ll let you read my other one. I would just like to emphasize that I consider myself a socialist, and that it’s not really that vague of a criteria for the purposes of an Internet argument. It’s just broad. I believe all current world superpowers current share elements of fascism which I despise and oppose.
Nazism as an ideology set out to eradicate those seen as impure, and two of the most prominent of those targeted groups were communists and Slavic people. Hitler literally wanted to kill everyone who identified as a socialist. To think that the USSR was unaware or tolerant of this fact is a truly awful take.
Wow a commie who doesnt know history, not surprising. Firstly I never said USSR didnt know what Germany was doing, I said they didnt care. This is backed up by history. Yes Hitler hated the soviets and they probably disliked him to but they tolerated him and his crimes against humanity enough to form an alliance and work together. A little timeline of events to refresh your memory: 1939 USSR signs a non aggression pact with Germany. This pact includes plans to divide eastern europe between USSR and Germany, a clause that prevents the USSR from allying or aiding enemies of Germany. Shortly after Germany and the USSR double team Poland and split it up between them. After Stalin used the attack to capture a few eastern european countries he asked to join the Axis powers treaty. Stalin was warned multiple times that Germany was preparing to backstab him but rejected the warnings as he thought they were so allies. After it was confirm that Hitler had betrayed him he spent several days sulking in his holiday house refusing to communicate with his generals.
There is no way you can reasonably say that USSR disapproved of Hitlers action and Ideology. The only thing he would have had an issue with is that Hitler hated slavic people. He was even willing to put that aside because they both had authoritarianism in common.
Omg please read a book, I beg you😭🙏. The USSR was basically the only country taking an active stance against fascists. Who supported the anti-fascist side in the Spanish civil war? That’s right the USSR, who allowed the fascists free reign in Europe? Right, the UK and France. The UK and France were happily appeasing the fascists as long as they weren’t threatened themselves.
Did you finish your book halfway through? Hitler and Stalin formed an alliance shortly after the Spanish civil war. Even though Hitler referred to Slavic people as untermench Stalin still signed treaties because they were at the end of the day both Fascist Authoritarian dictators and dont give a single fuck about committing crimes against humanity.
What do you do when a rabid fascist neighbor is on the rise and the capitalist countries of Europe are not willing to enter a defense alliance? Poland was not friendly towards the USSR, so in the case that the USSR did not divide Poland, Poland would have been completely invaded by Nazi Germany which puts the fascists right at the doorstep of the USSR, which clearly is not an optimal situation.
And you are really lacking any historical knowledge if you call Stalin fascist. The USSR under Stalin did the bulk of the work against fascism in Europe and it is a gross misappropriation to call Stalin or the USSR fascist.
Certain aspects of Stalin? Or in general?
Both. Fascist apologist like to cherry pick palatable characteristics of figures like Stalin, or Hitler, or Andrew Jackson in order to destigmatize thier idolatry of these figures. These “certain aspects” are the tip of the wedge they use to destroy rationality and peace.
A reasonable person who would like to discuss the benefits of communism would point to the value of labor, advantages of unions, and the dignity of the worker, not the evil, paranoid, and violent person of Stalin.
Always, the stink of fascism follows the idolization of so called “great men.” Excuses after excuses.
nonsense, communists were on the front line to kill people like hitler. this is holocaust denial
And then they killed millions of people to enforce Stalin’s autocracy. How, exactly, is that better than Hitler?
Removed by mod
All tankies ever have is name-calling.
The Holocaust most definitely happened and was perpetuated by the Nazis. Please don’t accuse me of denial.
Communism, or to be most specific, Marxism, was most definitely aligned against Hitler.
Stalin, was not. He would have watched Hitler kill all of Europe had the Nazis not attacked Russia. Same as the united states if Japan had not attacked them.
this is incorrect. the USSR made a suggestion to Czechoslovakia to make a defensive pact in case of nazi invasion. they also suggested this to poland. the polish did not like the idea. poland teamed up with nazi germany to invade czechoslovakia, and czechoslovakia preferred the help of the west, which backstabbed them and did not assist them despite declarations to the contrary. this meant that the soviet union could not intervene early in a large alliance against nazi germany. instead, they had to rebuild after the civil war as quickly as possible. they are on record knowing the germans were going to attack well before the war.
it should also be noted that poland invaded and annexed parts of independent ukraine and russia prior to WW2. the west was hoping the nazis and poland would both invade russia together. the polish ambassador to germany was in fact favorable to handing danzig over to nazi germany, and is on record about their surprise at the attack on poland. the fact that the soviet union suggested an alliance to poland was a massive act of deference considering the recent history.
why you have an obsession about stalin is beyond me. especially in regards to advocating for violence against marginalized groups that are usually socialist ‘tankies’. the soviet union does not exist anymore. grow up.
more info here https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish–Czechoslovak_border_conflicts
Your historical notes are technically correct, and Stalin did even attempt to reach a pact with France to limit the potential expansion of Nazi Germany. However, once those initiatives failed, Stalin had no issue about pacting with Hitler instead to invade third countries together, which highlights how Stalin’s first priority was improving his geopolitical position, rather than an ideological opposition to nazism.
I’m not obsessed with Stalin. I’m also not a Holocaust denier. You really seem keen on saying inflammatory things about me without any preceding context.
I will observe that I think Stalin was an awful person who tarnished the reputation of socialism for a century. I don’t have anything against socialist, being one myself.
I have a beef with apologist for failed communist states like the soviet onion. I feel they deeply misrepresent socialism.
You did not addressed a single point lol you’re a broken disc, say the same thing all the time
Do you deny the Molotov–Ribbentrop pact and the illegal attack on Poland by the Soviet union under its leader Josef Stalin?
Do you deny that the west signed NAPs with the Nazis as part of the agreement prior to Czechoslovakia’s annexation, which was before Molotov-Ribbentrop? Do you also deny that the Soviet Union saved approximately 200,000 Jewish lives by annexing Eastern Poland (which was taken from Russia and Ukraine in the 20s) upon the Nazi invasion?
No why should I ? A non aggression pact is not the same than occupying another country. The Jews which were deported to other parts of the Union were in deed saved from the Nazis.
I would support any country occupying a country if it saved hundreds of thousands of lives from death by fascism, without question. If you do not, you are evil.
I am of the strong opinion that fascism doesn’t care if you call yourself a communist, a capitalist, or a Democrat. If someone promotes a state which strips the power of local and individual labor for it’s own use; cultivates violence as a means of domestic control; supports expansionism; and finally the consolidation of power under a personality; I oppose it, and call it what it is.
vague criteria. you can argue any country you dont like is under a dictatorship of whatever and is led by a cult of personality. you should be concerned about more realistic things, like supporting unions in your country, helping marginalized people, that sort of thing. not punching down at socialists.
My comments are split now, so I’ll let you read my other one. I would just like to emphasize that I consider myself a socialist, and that it’s not really that vague of a criteria for the purposes of an Internet argument. It’s just broad. I believe all current world superpowers current share elements of fascism which I despise and oppose.
You’re a spineless coward, just admit you’re fine with genocide and totalitarianism so long as they have a red flag.
Genocide is horrible. That’s why I have so much respect for the USSR for stopping the Nazi menace.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_massacres_in_the_Soviet_Union
So I guess it’s just not genocide when the Soviet Union does it?
The Soviets bravely fought against the Nazis and put a stop to the Holocaust. For that alone, they should have all of our respect.
Because they were attacked. Otherwise they would have happily sat out of ww2.
Nazism as an ideology set out to eradicate those seen as impure, and two of the most prominent of those targeted groups were communists and Slavic people. Hitler literally wanted to kill everyone who identified as a socialist. To think that the USSR was unaware or tolerant of this fact is a truly awful take.
Wow a commie who doesnt know history, not surprising. Firstly I never said USSR didnt know what Germany was doing, I said they didnt care. This is backed up by history. Yes Hitler hated the soviets and they probably disliked him to but they tolerated him and his crimes against humanity enough to form an alliance and work together. A little timeline of events to refresh your memory: 1939 USSR signs a non aggression pact with Germany. This pact includes plans to divide eastern europe between USSR and Germany, a clause that prevents the USSR from allying or aiding enemies of Germany. Shortly after Germany and the USSR double team Poland and split it up between them. After Stalin used the attack to capture a few eastern european countries he asked to join the Axis powers treaty. Stalin was warned multiple times that Germany was preparing to backstab him but rejected the warnings as he thought they were so allies. After it was confirm that Hitler had betrayed him he spent several days sulking in his holiday house refusing to communicate with his generals.
There is no way you can reasonably say that USSR disapproved of Hitlers action and Ideology. The only thing he would have had an issue with is that Hitler hated slavic people. He was even willing to put that aside because they both had authoritarianism in common.
Omg please read a book, I beg you😭🙏. The USSR was basically the only country taking an active stance against fascists. Who supported the anti-fascist side in the Spanish civil war? That’s right the USSR, who allowed the fascists free reign in Europe? Right, the UK and France. The UK and France were happily appeasing the fascists as long as they weren’t threatened themselves.
Did you finish your book halfway through? Hitler and Stalin formed an alliance shortly after the Spanish civil war. Even though Hitler referred to Slavic people as untermench Stalin still signed treaties because they were at the end of the day both Fascist Authoritarian dictators and dont give a single fuck about committing crimes against humanity.
What do you do when a rabid fascist neighbor is on the rise and the capitalist countries of Europe are not willing to enter a defense alliance? Poland was not friendly towards the USSR, so in the case that the USSR did not divide Poland, Poland would have been completely invaded by Nazi Germany which puts the fascists right at the doorstep of the USSR, which clearly is not an optimal situation.
And you are really lacking any historical knowledge if you call Stalin fascist. The USSR under Stalin did the bulk of the work against fascism in Europe and it is a gross misappropriation to call Stalin or the USSR fascist.