All hail the Unimog!
Biblically accurate transmission
“How many hydraulic levers you need?”
“All of them”
“How many hydraulic-driven pieces of equipment does your rig have?”
“Mind your own business”
you aren’t supposed to show people what the control panel to the mcflurry machine looks like
As a classically trained driver I’ve found automatics make people drive worse because they have to think less. And they already barely think.
Manual occupies their phone hand. How is someone supposed to heart content so the algorithm gives them more of it!
Using the PRiNDle opens one up for so many activities.
using the PRiNDle
What the fuck is a “classically trained driver”?
He was taught by the same institute that taught Beethoven to drift.
Grand staff drifting
Didn’t go to one of those lousy postmodern driving schools I think
Like Robert Wells or Bill Nye.
Mom took him to a big office building parking lot on a Sunday when it was quiet. At least that’s how this classically trained driver learned.
I’ve actually observed the opposite. Automatics leave more brain cells to focus on traffic.
“Self driving” cars on the other hand…
They use them to focus on their phones, not the road
That’s just a type of driver though. They come in all transmissions.
Now think about how much worse they would drive if they had to switch their concentration from the road to the transmission.
Do you sing an aria by Mozart or something when you drive? But anyway, in my experience driving manual makes people more distracted because they have to think about gears and the clutch and stuff. Sure, a competent driver will not have any difficulty with that, but there’s an awful lot of them out there that don’t quite fall into that category.
You must not know how to drive a manual. When you know how to drive one, you don’t think about it. You just do it. You feel connected to the car and connected to the act of driving. Automatics absolutely allow people to go on autopilot and they focus on anything but driving: stuffing their face with food, browsing lemmy, texting, talking on their phone on speaker while holding it up to their mouth for some fucking reason even though it would be easier and better sound quality to just hold it up to their ear like phones were designed to be used, or you know, just use the fucking hands free phone calling that’s built into every fucking car that was made in the last decade and a half and included in every cheap ass aftermarket stereo system available on the planet
I’ve driven manual for over 30 years. Back in the day automatic transmissions were slow, clunky and inefficient. When I first tried modern one, I was instantly converted. Like, I also don’t want to manually adjust rotation speed on my washing machine, why would I do it in the car? Driving electric takes it to a whole new level. It just frees up mind share for concentrating on traffic. There’s no guarantee people will actually do that, of course. And if you think that things that are subconscious don’t take up mind share, you don’t know much about how the brain works. And if you think drivers on manual are less distracted, I have news for you too. I guess you live in the US, where driving manual is a choice. Here it’s mainly in cheaper, older cars which are driven by people who don’t much care about cars or driving.
You’re wrong
No I let my exhaust do the singing. It’s like playing a really simple pipe organ.
Only just noticed Your username. For a moment I thought You were serious.
If I was serious I’d say no human is sane enough to drive.
I mean, I’ve driven only automatics my whole life, with the odd exception of a friend’s ATV or whatnot, but I know when and how to use an e brake (and/or dual foot the brake pedal and gas pedal) to start a car on an incline, when said car has an automatic transmission…
EDIT: Also, most automatics will let you attempt a rolling start in neutral… I’ve done this many times, either rolling downhill or having people push.
You’re not gonna uninvent automatic transmissions.
Assuming you’re American (I doubt a non American would name themselves ‘Boomer Humor’), what you could do is mandate people completely retest, written and driving tests, for their liscenses every 5 years, then every 2 years after some age cutoff (60? 65?) then every single year after another age cutoff (70? 75?)… instead of just assuming that because they passed the test once in their life, all their skills and knowledge are perfect and up to date for the rest of their lives.
Most people think they are much better drivers than they actually are, so lets actually reality check them on that.
I would be so happy if we had stringent driving tests like in Europe. Hell, I’d gladly be re-tested every year if it meant people knew which lane to use and what turn signals were for.
Honestly, thats great to hear.
American car-centric culture is literally directly killing people, killing the environment, killing our ability to design cities and public transit…
You’d think the least we could do is be competent at driving.
But fucking nope, not a chance.
I used to live in Seattle.
Almost no one understands that in significant rain, you need to double your following distance.
Still fucking baffles me to this day. Rain City people don’t know how to drive… in the rain.
A big reason why I’m all for public transport is to get people off the road who shouldn’t be there in the first place so they’re out of my way when I’m driving.
Kind of like how I support new urbanism because it means less wilderness plowed under for suburbs, so I have more native habitat. I don’t want to live in a city, I just want most people to live in them so I can ve alone with my woodland friends.
“… get people off the road who shouldn’t be there in the first place…”
i get the sentiment but i think this is problematic.
who deserves the right to drive then?
i hear you, “people who are capable”. but real life isn’t so cut and dry. the way it works in america now is awful fs, you can back this up with death statistics fairly easily; however, i think this tribalistic “us vs them” attitude drivers get is emblematic of deeper problems in our culture.
everyone is all for the animal farm until they’re the other. cliche, i know, but it’s true.
Driving isn’t a right, it’s a privilege. And we determine who can drive by testing them to see if they know and will follow the rules.
Plus the old dude I saw today with shaking hands and an oxygen tube in his nose deserves to have an alternative where he won’t kill himself or others.
oh yeah, it’s surely a privilege to be allowed to participate in society.
the argument “driving isn’t a right, it’s a privilege” falls entirely flat on its face when there exist no alternatives for a large majority of people and their lives. hardcore boomer energy that blatantly ignores the reality on the ground.
i agree, there are people who shouldn’t drive. i wish i didn’t have to drive.
that simply isn’t feasible in the current reality, tho.
driving can once again be a privilege only after it returns to no longer being a necessity. it is the natural right of all peoples to participate in their society. i agree with the sentiment, driving is a privilege that should be earned. but we should do ground work to make that true, we can’t just ignore the real world and indignantly say whatever we feel like; real life isn’t harry potter and the symbols and words we create bare no direct power over reality. driving is not a privilege in todays america, you don’t get to be the arbiter of decision here. in a practical sense, driving is necessary. the right to transportation and movement evolves with the age, man; it doesn’t get narrower as time goes on in the way a lot of western law seems to want to imply nowadays.
Death statistics?
https://everytownresearch.org/graph/gun-death-vs-motor-vehicle-accident-deaths-since-1999/
This source doesn’t go up to 2024, but only fairly recently have guns killed more Americans than cars, each year, and the overall numbers aren’t too far off.
Cars certainly cause far more property damage than guns.
Anyone in a car is easily capable of killing another human being or doing them massive injury.
I agree with you that there are many more pervasive and complex issues … driving (sorry) Americans to be dangerous irresponsible drivers…
But cars are deadly weapons, whether driven as such intentionally or unintentionally.
Maybe people should be more stringently screened and qualified before they are allowed and trusted to regularly use them.
For the record, I think you shouldn’t be able to own a firearm without having gone through a certification course, but as it stands right now, only 10 US states require that.
https://everytownresearch.org/rankings/law/training-required-to-purchase-guns/
All states require you complete a certification for concealed carry… but you don’t need that to legally buy and possess a gun.
Yeah, and all the morons from the Midwest stick their thumbs in their belt loops and insist that they really know how to drive in the snow, don’cha know, not like you coastal people.
And yet there isn’t a single guardrail anywhere in Minnesota that hasn’t got a Chevy Suburban shoved halfway through it.
That would be especially funny coming from a Minnesotan aimed at … at least myself, as a Seattleite.
For starters: It almost never seriously snows in Seattle, so we don’t have anywhere near as good an infrastructure for clearing snow.
Not saying the average Seattleite is adept at snow driving… but… Seattle has A LOT of steep hills.
I’m reasonably confident Minnesota is as flat as a pancake in comparison.
(Checked. MN’s tallest ‘mountain’ is 2300 feet. WA’s is 14,000. Their ‘mountain’ is unironically what I would call a big hill. WA has almost 150 mountains taller than 2000 feet, by relative geographical prominence, not absolute height)
A fairly small amount of snow, especially if it can be cold long enough to freeze into ice, and you’re looking at something like 30 to 40% of Seattle’s roads being either insanely dangerous, or roads that are cutoff by said chokepoints.
I’m talking 18% to 22% grade.
Apparently the steepest road in Minneapolis is ‘nearly’ 15%.
-.-
That is why a foot of snow basically shuts down Seattle.
Now… going further…
If you live in the PNW and actually try to see all the sights… aka, leave Seattle…
Well you hit the fucking Cascade mountains, where it often snows considerably, the foothills have tons of smaller cities and rural communities with garbage tier snaking roads of extreme grade, and on the east side of the state, they get massive snow dumps all the time, though it is much more flat.
So if you’ve actually driven or lived around a good deal of WA… you’ve probably had to encounter a lot more difficult snow conditions than an average MidWest driver.
US: predominantly automatic transmission, low speed limits
Germany: predominantly manual transmission, higher speed limits and no limits on around half of autobahns (motorways)
US road deaths per capita twice of Germany.
Draw your own conclusions.
Probably more related to the god-awful infrastructure design in the US, like stroads and an unfathomable tendency to use stop signs for a lot of things they are just not fit for, like to replace speed bumps, chicanes, and roundabouts.
Also the better comparable statistic should be deaths per distance traveled in cars.
Here is the list 6.9 vs 4.2 deaths per 1 billion km. 12.8 vs. 3.35 per 100’000 inhabitants.
But you need both for a fuller puncture, not everyone involved/dieing is in a vehicle.
Not to mention the DUI rates in the US are astronomical. Over 1/3 of motor fatalities are alcohol related in the US.
Chicanes are the best part about riding a sport bike! I get to drag knees on public roads!
I would, but I ran out of crayons
What if we’re too American to draw an appropriate conclusion from that?
How many football field sized conclusions would it be?
Quick Google
In 2024 36% of Germans reported using the car daily.
In 2023 95.3% of Americans older than 16 drive on occasions.
83 million Germans, 63% above 16
340 million Americans, 65% above 16
52 million potential drivers in Germany, 17 million actually drive
221 million potential drivers in America, 210 million drive daily
17 million vs 210 million daily drivers
~12x more drivers, only 2x more death
Per capita isn’t really a way to look at it
Besides automatic cars or lack of a manual transmission is not causing accidents.
Chance of death goes up significantly with speed
No one has ever crashed because they couldn’t go over the speed limit
It’s been difficult to find manual transmisssions for a couple of decades here in the US. That ship has sailed.
While most of my life I vowed my kids would learn manual, I gave up on that idea because
- manual transmission cars are rare and disappearing
- automatics now are more fuel efficient
- CVT are reliable and even more efficient
- EVs don’t shift
My kids started driving in a world of automatics and will soon be in a world with no transmissions
cvts are reliable
Now THAT’S a statement made by the utterly deranged
I think he is confusing CVT with the toyota eCVT which is quite different and is actually reliable
The Prius system is a modern marvel and deserves a better name than eCVT.
Belt type CVTs are trash. I don’t care that your Subaru has 57,000 trouble free miles, it’s going to die.
I’ve had a Subaru CVT for 10+ years with over 200k miles no issues. Anecdotal yes, but I’ve grown fond of the CVT feel, it’s smooth, I like it.
If they aren’t made by Nissan, they are.
EVs don’t shift
I know there’s no reason for them to, but a small part of me wishes there was. Something so satisfying about being good at managing gears
So true. I’ve never been more tempted to keep a classic car, even if it’s just an old shit box with manual transmission.
Had a manual 2016 Mazda 3. Took a bit to find it with all the options I wanted but it was available at the time.
Isn’t the civic si series all manual?
I bought a civic in 2006 and it took 6 weeks to get one. A manual would have taken much longer
When I learned how to drive, manual transmissions were higher performance and better fuel efficiency: side by side comparisons of the exact same model of car would show better 0-60 and quarter mile times, while having slightly better EPA fuel efficiency ratings, for the manual transmission.
At some point, though, the sheer number of gears in an automatic transmission surpassed those in the typical manual gearbox, and the average automatic today has 6 gears, up to 9 in some Mercedes and 10 in certain Ford and GM models. So they could start selecting gear ratios for better fuel efficiency, without “wasting” a valuable gear slot. There was a generation of Corvettes that was notorious for having a 6th gear that was worthless for actual performance but helped the car sneak by with a better highway fuel mileage rating.
And the automatics became much faster at shifting gears, with even the ultra high performance supercars shifting to paddle shifters where the driver could still control the gear, but with the shifting mechanism automated. Ferrari’s paddle shifter models started outperforming the traditional stick shift models in the early 2000’s, if I remember correctly. As those gear shifting technologies migrated over to regular automatics, the performance gap shrunk and then ended up going the other way.
At this point there’s not enough reason for a true manual stickshift transmission. It’s no longer faster or more economic, so it’s just a pure fun. Which is fine, but does make it hard to actually design one for any given model of car.
In the US it’s not really even cheaper - as in maybe you could save a couple hundred on a few models but most won’t offer a choice and it’s nothing in proportion to the cost of the car and the chances of finding one are so small it’s not even worth trying for most cars. There may be a few - are jeeps still available?
My favorite car was a Miata with a stick (even though I’m too tall to fit) - maybe I need to track down an older one before they’re gone forever
• Wanted to Start on a Steep Hill? We had a Tool for that: it was Called “Flooring the Gas while letting go off the Clutch”
IT AIN’T NO GOOD MORNIN’ WITHOUT THE SMELL OF NICELY BURNED CLUTCH
I was going to say, I always had my e-brake on when I parked my car and so I always started the car with it on.
Does he mean slowly let off the clutch while releasing the e-brake? Does he put on his e-brake if he stops on a hill, in traffic too!
I’ve had to use the ebrake method before for a hill that was wayyyy too steep and a fence gate closed behind me.
You basically just let off the clutch and press on the gas until the car wants to move forward, then you let off the e brake and go without going backwards.
That’s when you are supposed to use Mr_Mofu’s technique!
that’s mr mr.mofu to you, kind sir.
There are some steep stop sign intersections in San Francisco that I’ve had to use the e brake for.
If you’re on a steep hill, yes sometimes you need to use the handbrake to get moving. This had to be demonstrated when I got my licence, but to be fair some manual vehicles now have automatic hill start. Still a good technique to learn because it doesn’t always activate.
We’d park my buddies Mustang on a hill wherever we went in case it wouldn’t start. LOL, everyone made fun of him saying it was a Pinto. (<- it was this, but really, really shitty)
Ah the Mustang II. What a historically bad letdown.
I still hate to this day one of my parents cars. The gear shift is on the side of the radio and the radio controls(what isn’t touch screen) are underneath.
What the hell is this design.
Bringing back the classics! Great-grandad had one, he’d be right at home.
Bruh, that’s almost worse than Tesla
You guys do realize this is supposed to be a parody of boomer bullshit arguments right?
They don’t, and that’s the way I like 'em!
Yeah but I love my manual tbh
No! Dey takin our caaaaars
My Volkswagen flashes a message when I put the key in the ignition; “Depress clutch to start”
So I tell it that the majority of Yanks don’t know how to use it and it starts every time.
Oh good I got here before the lemmy fuck cars brigade showed up
LET’S FUCKING TAKE THE BUS
Seriously the funniest thing talking to immigrants in the US is them reminiscing about being able to buy high quality produce, food, tools, clothing, gifts, books, etc by walking down the street or taking a bike a few blocks away. Also people daily taking vans, busses, and trains to get to work or school.
Meanwhile our transport setup is so bad, people have successfully marketed ship to your house meal prep boxes which is actually such an insane first world problem when you think about it.
Hi, !fuckcars mod here. I absolutely love my manual transmissions and unironically fully endorse this meme.
I think you might be surprised at just how much crossover there is between car enthusiasts and people who hate car dependency. Cars ought to be like horses: they should be available for enthusiasts to play with, but it should be wholly unnecessary and considered kinda ridiculous to use them as routine transportation, especially in cities.
Frankly, I would prefer it if all transmissions were manual, as it would help encourage people who see driving as a chore to use other transportation modes instead.
Yeah I honestly love driving, but I love walking and biking too. Just because I’m a car enthusiast doesn’t mean that I don’t wish that my city was more walkable or had actual public transport.
Big oil forced that shit onto you instead of going the far superior EV route from the beginning. Now EVs are finally taking over and I’m happy my kids never have to get fuel grease on their hands and suffer those nasty fumes at gas stations. Shifters were needed for an inferior technology to work. I liked it as an experience when I learned to drive. But cars are mostly transport due to failure of better public transport infrastructure. I don’t care whether they’re fun. I drive for fun on the Xbox or maybe in a GoKart every few years.
Oh that felt good to rant.
Except they made sure you couldn’t repair it so You’ll end up dropping that 50k once every 5-10 years anyway 🤪
(Im pro-EV btw. just wish EVs were pro-me)
You know that there’s shops all over the place who will fix cells in bad packs? Replacing the whole battery is FUD similar to warning someone they need to replace their whole engine if there’s any issue.
Not talking about replacing the battery, I’m talking about every part having an encrypted module that only the dealership has the key to, meaning only the dealership can replace the part.
edit: and also the fact that most of them have that stupid giant tablet instead of buttons, and spy on you without consent.
EVs weren’t viable for long distance travel before though. Like batteries didn’t have the energy density they have today. The advancements in battery tech relied heavily on the advancements in computing tech. Like for battery research, manufacturing, battery management. And research in computer technology has never stopped.
Even if they never stopped making electric cars, they would have stayed short distance vehicles for a long time since battery tech didn’t advance fast enough. We might have gotten long distance EVs a decade sooner but definitely not decades. And fast charging is also only possible because of miniaturization of computer chips, nobody would’ve bought an EV that can travel less than 100km and take a full day to charge for their primary mode of transportation .
With Tesla burning right now (sometimes literally), I’m concerned for the future of EVs.
There are other EV-only makers, most notably in my mind, rivian, but not many others come to mind.
Most other manufacturers have either stopped making EVs entirely, or switched to hybrid, or hybrid adjacent technologies. Honda is a good example of this backpedaling. They dipped their collective toes into EVs with proper hybrid vehicles during the pre-pandemic years. Between 2015 and 2020 (ish) they had a PHEV, the clarity. It was discontinued in 2020. I forget if the last model year was 2019 or 2020. Either way, I still kind of want one… Regardless, they took everything they learned and put it into their fancy new e-CVT, which essentially, at most speeds, turns the gasoline motor of the vehicle into a generator, powering an electric motor that drives the wheels.
Don’t get me wrong, that’s still more efficient than burning the Jurassic forests to drive motion, but it’s not as efficient as running the drive motor from batteries that were charged from green sources.
Most other manufacturers have done something similar in abandoning BEVs for HEVs or whatever Honda is doing. There’s a few stand out exceptions, like the F150 lightening. Good on you Ford… But the list is pretty short, especially compared to the fuel based alternatives.
It’s a good time for other companies to pick up the ball that Tesla dropped here, and I’m hoping they do. … I mean, they won’t because they’re too busy buying yachts with all that fossil fuel bribe money they get, but I can dream.
Daddy needs his coffee.
Seriously, the automatic is so much better for using a truck as a tool. I still drive a stick right now and I’m lucky I miss rush hour most days because we start and end early, one job site.
I’d never choose a manual for dealing with taking tools and materials around the Metro while the assholes I’m trying to service cut me off in stop and go traffic.
And IMO we need to start racing EVs, leave combustion for the 20th century old timer events
oshit I have been bamboozled by a shitpost
The perfect transmission UI was the Teletouch on the Ford Edsel. And if anyone tries to argue I’ll say “nuh uh,” run away, and cry.
Agreed
i miss my stick
There must be a trans joke in here somewhere.
don’t eat the crab dip!
Happens at higher age
You’ll never catch me doing something that can be automated away, this includes shifting gears in a car.
But a car is just a tool to me, like a cordless drill, so i’m sure I don’t get it.
As a programmer, I am more than happy automating a task for which I will never recoup my automation time investment.
It’s the principle of the thing.
I totally understand people who like the whole ritual of the manual car. Hell, that’s how I feel about music making. But there’s something to be said for just getting something to happen without much effort.
Bought a new car last fall and looked everywhere for a manual, they are indeed getting rare in the US. Ended up with a Jeep Gladiator sport because it’s a convertible 4x4 with a stick shift and so far the driving experience has been nice. You can tell Stellantis cheaps out on some of the plastic trim stuff and we’ll see just how reliable it is after a few years. Would be sweet if Toyota would make a convertible or T-top 4runner with a stick shift in the US.
Manuals are definitely niche now and mainly in sporty cars (Civic SI, Type R, BRZ, Supra, etc).
