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I am surpringly annoyed about Americans somehow finding a way to make this about themselves.
In reality I’m much more worried about the likely counterreformist pushback that is likely about to happen. We’re about to find out if a remarkably powerful organization’s leader was able to seed enough support to secure a politically aligned successor, and if the answer is “no” a bunch of organizations are about to get even more ruthlessly conservative at a time when a new strain of fascism is seeking moral support. The Catholic Church has been here before. It didn’t go well.
“Francis appointed nearly 80% of the cardinal electors who will choose the next pope, increasing the possibility that his successor will continue his progressive policies, despite the strong pushback from traditionalists.”
https://www.reuters.com/world/pope-francis-has-died-vatican-says-video-statement-2025-04-21/
The catch is that he did not appoint by ideology. His appointments were mainly based on the guys doing work for poor people, for migrants, and on them doing their jobs in the global south.
Quite a few of these he made cardinals are somewhat conservative in their views, especially regarding sexuality
It helps a bit that typically those that have more compassion tend to be more liberal, but in general even the more liberal Catholics tend to be somewhat conservative
I mean, there are catholic priests and officials that are very liberal - they do exist. But those people do usually not even get into a position as a bishop, so they are not on the table to potentially become cardinals.
I don’t expect a conservative backlash, on the contrary Francis’s Pontificate has weakened the conservative wing considerably. Given that 80% of the voting cardinals were appointed by Pope Francis, I would expect them to elect a successor that continues in the same direction, perhaps even a more radical one.
During his pontificate Francis also made a lot of efforts to bring in new groups into the corridors of power. Not only by his appointment of cardinals, but also e.g. by reforming the Curia with Praedicate evangelium.
Compared to the iron grip the reactionaries held before my understanding is you’re right. That doesn’t mean that wing is going to get away with a continuist choice. I mean, it’s more likely than it used to be, but I’m not making a call until the Habemus Papam.
As a non-Catholic American, I have the same worry for the global geopolitics. It just so happens that the united states is part of those geopolitics.
It sure feels like the tides are turning conservative everywhere, but apparently a Filipino progressive is a favorite to be next
We’ll see where it goes. They aren’t exactly transparent about these things, and they’ve been arguing among themselves for a while. We’ll know with the white smoke, I suppose.
There is a roman saying, “the one who enters conclave as the pope [to be] leaves it as a mere cardinal”
There’s an old saying in Tennessee — I know it’s in Texas, probably in Tennessee — that says, fool me once, shame on — shame on you. Fool me — you can’t get fooled again.
I can’t read this. The saying I know is probably Roman: “Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me”.
https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/6436-there-s-an-old-saying-in-tennessee-i-know-it-s
As dumb as Bush was, he was smart enough to not say “shame on me” on camera.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bushism
You can find the original quote in the examples section.
Ah, I didn’t knew there was a president in America that made the mistake of paraphrasing it like that. Shame on americans that keep bein’ fooled in that fake democracy :P
I’m not Catholic, and i don’t follow this stuff closely, but I’ve seen a LOT of popes come and go, and as far as I remember, the chosen pope has NEVER been the early favorite. Anybody whose name is being knocked around right now is unlikely to be the final choice, recently-historically speaking.
Bummer. Then I guess it’ll be another Italian.
A very old one indeed. It’s never certain how conclaves will go.
I’m waiting for someone to suggest that a it’s time for the first woman pope.
Haha I was thinking that, but there’s no way. And that’s a problem
I am surpringly annoyed about Americans somehow finding a way to make this about themselves
Me too, bud. Me. Too. Alas, there is no escaping them for me. I do wish more Americans could travel abroad and see the world beyond our borders. I would wager fewer than 20% of Americans have been 50 miles from our borders and it can lead to a pretty insular world view.
Should we make it about a religion that’s known for pedophile priests and them being protected? Or about how religion is a long con scam of power and wealth that has been the leading cause of war and persecution for centuries upon centuries?
Granted, by all appearances, I believe he seemed to be a pretty good guy. Hopefully the next pope will be as good. Take what you can while religions still exist, I suppose.
Yes.
Yes, you should.
Because as much as you see it as a domestic throwaway denomination among many, they are extremely and increasingly overrepresented in developing countries (and a couple of European ones as well).
So if you want to know which way the use of contraceptives, the position on gay people or the express support for neofascism is going to go in Africa this is relevant.
It is not about the US or their opinions. And I say this as an atheist.
I am surpringly annoyed about Americans somehow finding a way to make this about themselves
And turning it into politics, because there is no otger way to talk about things
Sure, discussing politics is important to some degree, but it isn’t the most important thing in our lifes
One of the most important persons in the world (atleast for catholics) has died. We shouldn’t laugh about it. We shouldn’t politicize it. We shouldn’t take it to any other context.
I’m surprised and sad at the same time. Even tho i like edgy memes and memes about Pope John Paul II (he is a legend in Poland and polish community do meme about him but in a very respectful way), i really find it bad to do so about Pope Francis right now - so i dislike any post like this
It is literally a political position. There’s about to be an election to choose the next guy.
I agree that it is serious in that it’s going to have an impact on people’s lives, far beyond the relatively small direct power they have. That concerns me.
To be clear, I have zero respect for the institution, but I care about how they wield the influence they have, and I’d much rather have a relatively progressive guy like Francis than a relative reactionary like John Paul II, with all due respect to Polish pride. I’m assuming we can at least agree on taking him over Benedictus.
It’s just a religion, we strip it of any power if they misbehave.
I am very curious to know who “we” is in this context.
Europe. We have a history of stripping power from christianity, and we’ll continue till there’s nothing left if necessary.
So yeah, just be powerless, it’s just a religion.
Europe has a history of stripping power from Christianity? Like, Europe Europe?
Is this some other Europe I don’t know about? There may be an Europe I entirely missed somewhere, I suppose. Because the Europe I know took a millenia to marginally diminish the power of Christianity, and it only happened because of liberal democracy quietly supplanting spirituality for convenience. It was in no way, shape or form a political choice based on them “misbehaving”.
I mean, even if that was true, which hah, nah, the places where the Catholic church is growing these days are in Africa and Asia. Stop making me have to lump Europeans with the gross ethnocentrism of USmericans.
I can’t really take it serious when Belgium is labeled as catholic Christianity majority.
The majority of practicing religious people are Muslim.
The churches are empty.
For one thing, Belgium is like 2% of the EU, so barely representative. For another, being actively practicing is less relevant than how much political influence is wielded and how many institutions are baked into the legal and political system to align with a particular worldview.
And for another another, this isn’t about Europe (or the US) much at all. They matter way less than the countries trying to secure a semblance of civil rights in the context of an increasing interference from Western-originated religions using them as breeding grounds for retrograde conservatism.
So you are very welcome to remain oblivious and pretend you have culturally overcome the footprint of Christianity (which again, hah, nah), but that has zero bearing on the relevance of these events.
Yeah sure it impacted our culture. But nobody believes in Christianity anymore. There’s a political party dying because they have Christian in their name. Their voters literally keep dying year after year.
Haven’t really heard anyone talk about this religion the past 10 years.
I’ve heard a lot about Islam though, because of immigrants. Like god damn these people actually still believe in a deity.
Anyways, have fun with your religion stuff. Keep it out of belgium
Cultism is such a potent tendency of the human animal that new cults form spontaneously in the absence of established mythologies (or despite them). Fascism is a cult phenomenon, for instance, and the people vulnerable to such belief systems are unerringly broken in the same way that religious people are broken. It’s like someone scooped out the part of their brains responsible for maintaining epistemic norms and replaced it with oatmeal.
You should know that lots of countries and societies will not do this. Especially in the global south.
Unfortunately that’s not the way it works.
Yeah, meeting JD Vance can be too much for anyone.
We should spread the news that Vance killed him!
vance liz truss’d the pope
Honestly, it’s not even hat far fetched. He probably denied visits because he was in bad health, yet Americans probably pushed to meet anyway
I believe the pope met with the UK PM and one other dignitary the previous day, so he wasn’t denying all visits.
Edit: … and he did meet with Vance the next day.
I would imagine they have some beautiful, world class couches in the Vatican. I can only imagine what the Pope walked in on!
I’m actually sad about this one. He was by far the best pope of my lifetime.
Low bar.
True but he exceeded the existing bar by a lot.
Yes, but if the next one is a little better, and the next one, and the next one…
The church evolves very slowly.
If politics is anything to take a pattern from, things will get slightly better, but those moments of hope are followed by gigantic steps backwards.
You’ve really got to boil that frog for a while
Doesn’t help they pick the oldest guys in the room to become the pope.
That’s why they keep doing it, same thing in politics. Old people holding back progress in a desperate attempt to grasp onto power just a bit longer.
I mean, I think they’re also choosing old people to be pope because it’s a “for life” thing. Plus the whole wisdom aspect and shit since it’s religion
I feel like anyone who still believes that crap that age necessarily brings wisdom needs to be prevented from making any political decisions at any cost.
Of course it doesn’t necessarily bring wisdom, agreed,
Also agree with considering life experience though
That is by no means a given! In fact we should expect a counter-movement within the church, as that’s what happens if a leader is gone that was pushing the organization in a more progressive direction against the will of many influential members.
They will definitely not appoint an even more progressive pope after him. He was “the progressive pope” for a time and now they will shift gears in the other direction for a time. The Catholic Church is not on some steady progressive march. Especially the way politics are going around the world, you can expect a very anti-woke pope next.
Speed bump.
I feel depressed watching someones last days no matter who they are. R.i.p. I think it was brave of him to be in public for so long.
He had the dopest pope rock album too, I imagine that record will stand
Spokesperson of the biggest pedophile ring dies, and that makes me sad.
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He was the best child rapist out of the lot of them 😢
I hope his religion is real so he can burn in hell with his predecessors.
Don’t be sad, he was as just bad as any of his colleagues.
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/06/11/world/europe/pope-francis-homophobic-slur.html
I have terrible news for you if you think using a homophobic slur is as bad as anything the previous popes and cardinals have been doing.
The homophobic slurs should also be a reminder that the catholic church is a homophobic cult.
Isn’t this ‘whataboutism’?
Francis was known as a liberal reformer, making headlines across the globe by permitting the blessing of same-sex couples and promoting global action on climate change.
Francis worked as a janitor and a chemical technician in the food-processing industry before entering the seminary.
He was outspoken about clergy abuse and called on the Catholic Church to “act decisively” against paedophile priests just months after his 2013 appointment.
Francis was known as a liberal reformer, making headlines across the globe by permitting the blessing of same-sex couples and promoting global action on climate change.
He was also known as the ceo of a homophobic and misogynist cult and for strolling around italy in a private helicopter.
He was outspoken about clergy abuse and called on the Catholic Church to “act decisively” against paedophile priests just months after his 2013 appointment.
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2018/jan/19/pope-francis-victims-church-sexual-abuse-slander-chile
“As if I could have taken a selfie or a photo while Karadima abused me and others and Juan Barros stood by watching it all,” tweeted Barros’s most vocal accuser, Juan Carlos Cruz. “These people are truly crazy, and the pontiff talks about atonement to the victims. Nothing has changed, and his plea for forgiveness is empty.”
Wasn’t this then 6 months later:
Pope Francis begins purge at Chilean church over sex abuse scandal
Francis realized he had misjudged the Chilean situation after meeting with Cruz and reading the 2,300-page report compiled by two leading Vatican investigators about the depth of Chile’s scandal, which has devastated the credibility of the church in a once overwhelmingly Roman Catholic country in the pope’s native Latin America.
“A new day has begun in Chile’s Catholic Church!” tweeted Juan Carlos Cruz, the abuse survivor who denounced Barros for years and pressed for the Vatican to take action.
“I’m thrilled for all those who have fought to see this day,” he said. “The band of delinquent bishops … begins to disintegrate today.”
https://www.pbs.org/newshour/world/pope-francis-begins-purge-at-chilean-church-over-sex-abuse-scandal https://apnews.com/article/33b208ef4bc84576a503b059629607db
Sounds like you could maybe… forgive him… for making a mistake while attempting to cleanup the worst mess in modern catholic history?
But I’m not a catholic or religious at all
They took action after there was a public backlash. Do you know what the context of the original comment is?
This was tbe same man that said being homosexual isn’t a crime and doesn’t merit persecution for it, albeit by the catholic creed being a sin.
An insult is only as long someone allows it to be.
Downvote away.
He did get a lot of things right:
Pope Francis says Trump ‘is not a Christian,’ Trump responds
He’s the internally appointed CEO of a cult persuading people to believe that ghosts are real. The blessing of same-sex couples is a stunt the catholic church pulled to save face in 21st century, their different treatment of homosexual couples still speak loud about their cult homophobia.
You are hard pressed to be more of an atheist than I am.
You expect dogma to be nullified with a snap of finger? Even more when that same dogma is taken from the book on which the creed is built upon?
As if people require any sort of excuse to shun and persecute those who are different.
I find it more important countries to codify into law the right for anyone, regardless gender or sexual orientation, to enjoy the same rights, including marriage if so they choose but like it or not, a man forcing that small change into a monolithic, organized, religion is something to be recognized.
You expect dogma to be nullified with a snap of finger?
I expect homophobic cult leaders to be called out for what they are and not praised or defended
Then start by the first line priests.
Those can be some of the worst individuals in the church, and some of the best, at the same time.
There are incredibly forward thinking, humanist and humane individuals acting as local parish priests, individuals that entered the ranks for personal calling and devotion, doing their best to push back on backwards thought and belief on “pious” communities. Those should garner wide support, when it is the exact opposite that happens, with usually the most reprobate and closed minded individuals being seen as “good” priest and thus rising in the ranks, to keep the status quo, one generation after the other.
Institutions are made of people. That man did little but achieved something to move the creed in a better direction. Most just tend to small affairs or outright go for even more dogmatic understandings of outdated subjects, which by itself drives away more people.
Now that I think about it, as reading or being knowledgeable of what any “holy” book holds is the best way to create atheists, maybe those are doing the best job.
Even the “best” individuals in the catholic church are still the members of a homophobic and misogynist cult persuading people to believe that ghosts are real. catholic church bending and changing its own sacred holy laws as it suit them is more proof of their bullshits.
Of course the worst pro-russia troll would also troll against catholicism, why am I surprised
Calling out the the admin of a homophobic cult and pointing out their homophobic slurs is “trolling”
You are definitely in good faith for accusing people of being russian trolls in a pope thread…
This comment proves the church’s PR experiment worked. The lies worked. He wasn’t progressive, he was a hard conservative, homophonic, misogynist who defended pedos and spewed hollow platitudes while sitting on a trillion dollars. But the church put him in place and threw a huge propaganda machine behind him and you bought it
Edit: to the pedo lovers in this thread who are gonna miss king pedo
homophonic
I think he was the first Pope Francis. But even if he were the second, that wouldn’t make him a homophone.
I guess all popes are homophonic in some languages, like in Spanish “la papa” is potato and “el papa” is pope.
You win the award for funniest spelling pedantry of the month.
Did you even see the earlier Popes? He did everything you say and yet this guy was liberal by every definition compared to the guy he replaced. Benedict was nasty and he knew it.
He said a lot. Did the opposite and continued the church’s status quo, you’re a fool if you think his pro lgbt talk was sincere, actions speak louder than words
This comment proves the church’s PR experiment worked.
Conspiracy theorists are so weird… Like do you imagine a smokey room with the pope and a group of cardinals talking about how they want to represent the church in a completely opposite way to how they want it to be? Or is there a “shadow church” that controls it all and the pope is unaware?
Which marvel movie best reflects the situation do you think?
I mean, the Catholic Church is a political organization that has global reach, I don’t think it’s a wild conspiracy that they carefully consider their appearance.
This comment proves the church’s PR experiment worked. The lies worked. He wasn’t progressive, he was a hard conservative,
This phrase, right here, sounds like it came from a conspiracy theorist. Because that’s exactly how conspiracy theorists rationalize things. Anything that counters my belief is “lies” and it’s just a “PR experiment”. It can’t possibly be that the pope is, like most people, complex with varied beliefs and potentially even contradictory beliefs.
No. It’s “lies from a PR department”. 🙄
But they do have a pr department. The holy see is a political organization. They are an internationally recognized government with diplomatic relationships. While not a member state of the UN they are permanent observers and influence decision making on a worldwide scale, and it’s not a secret that the church, which is run by the same person as the holy see (the Pope) has had its fair share of controversy.
I don’t think it’s a stretch to think the holy see spends time and effort in order to make their appearance, and the appearance of the church, look better.
“I don’t think it’s a stretch” and “they have a PR department” are not “evidence”.
lol we have proof of these people causing genocides and raping children but sure that’s far fetched
Proof of things “A” is not proof of things “B”
JD Vance: “How long have you worked here?”
“Have you said Thanks, even once?”
Is Francis really your name? What’s on your birth certificate?
His last words: “Dear Father in heaven, that unsufferable man!”
I actually saw a headline yesterday about how the Pope “ghosted” JV Dunce. 😫👻
As others have said, Francis also stacked the electors who will be deciding the next pope, so it is possible that his successor will also be just as progressive (well, progressive for the leader of a conservative religious institution, at least).
Yeah, he ALMOST restored the office of Pope to relevancy :D
When his draconian successor inevitably comes along, we can go back to ignoring the papacy again.
The most PR pope, never meant anything he said, all gaslighting and hollow platitudes, no actual change, still shuffled around and defended pedos
Ah yes, the expected purity test. Let’s just ignore any progress made and make snark remarks online while we wait for the 100% ideologically pure.
The only purity test pass would be a person who refuses to do it, the only progress would be the collapse of that genocidal church
I fucking hate you Vance, this is your fault!
This is huge, pinning it for now.
One would even suggest this is world news.
Definitely. This potentially changes the structure of the Church which impacts every country in which it operates.
1.3 billion followers in 160+ countries.
Guys. Joe Biden is Catholic. The Vatican has an opportunity to do the funniest thing ever.
JD Vance visits the Vatican, the pope literally dies
I guess he didn’t say “thank you”
Like Liz Truss to the queen.
Pope is recovering;
-
meets JD Vance
-
dies a couple days later…
Hmm
-
let’s wait a couple days and see if he comes back
You literally missed the right number by one.
I don’t think they did. In the bible, Jesus died Friday afternoon and rose Sunday morning. That’s pretty close to two days- just over a day and a half, depending on when God yoinked his son’s spirit.
The tradition took place over three days, but we’ll know if he’s a’risin’ by the day and a half mark.
Well done! As Martin Luther King Jr said:
“Love cannot drive out pedantry, only more pedantry can do that”
The child in me kind of wishes he had passed on 4/20 Easter, but alas.
That being said, while I’m not religious I appreciate a lot (not all) of what this Pope has done. His Apostolic Exhortation on the Idolatry of Money, and the gross inequality wrought by capitalism is worth a read.
Some gold from that document:
In this context, some people continue to defend trickle-down theories which assume that economic growth, encouraged by a free market, will inevitably succeed in bringing about greater justice and inclusiveness in the world. This opinion, which has never been confirmed by the facts, expresses a crude and naïve trust in the goodness of those wielding economic power and in the sacralized workings of the prevailing economic system.
Would be funny to make a quote collection titled “Who said this? Pope Francis or a socialist?”
For the time he had, the distance he brought the Church is pretty impressive. I will go to my grave believing that organized religion does more harm than good, nothing they ever do will change my mind. That said, he really was an agent for positive change, especially compared to Darth Benedict, who preceded him.
Not to mention his stance against zio terrorism. That’s probably why he’s being replaced.
He’s being replaced because he dead yo.
Good pope tho.
I like the implication that they interrogated a dead body about its opinion on terrorism lmao
It wouldn’t be the first time!
oh I forgot about that, you win this comment section 😂
Don’t worry. If I’m elected pope, you’ll get to see the return of the Cadaver Synod, bigger and better than ever! In fact, I’ll set up a whole special court just to try former popes I have a theological beef with! They’ll have several cases going on simultaneously. I’ll put dozens of former popes on trial!
He was an alright Pope in the end. Not a soulless bastard like Benedict.
He even opted out of the traditional, expensive papal funeral and requested to just be laid in state and then buried in a wooden coffin lined with zinc.
I can’t not read this as “expensive paypal funeral”.
Why zinc?
It’s a fairly common lining for coffins that you’re gonna either transport internationally or put in mausoleums. It keeps the body preserved for longer and takes about 100 years to break down.
Well, now it’s time to swing to an even Nazier Nazi.
You joke but there is a genuine possibility that the Vatican might elect someone who is more conservative, if not very so. The Vatican under Francis had been the most progressive it had been in decades. And it ruffled the feathers of many conservative clergies.
Yep, and there’s no way Musk, Trump, and Putin aren’t trying to rig that vote. A Papal blessing would go a long way to speeding up their march.
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Oh, it wasn’t a joke, I was just saying it in a humorous manner.
They are priests, they are all the same, no matter the cult or the specific affiliation (Jesuit in this case): https://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/europe/pope-paedophile-priests-children-god-vatican-b2336786.html
According to the article, the context for the flashy headline is that all Catholics are children of God and that all must be treated with compassion, while still acknowledging that pedophiles are monsters.
I will not pretend that Francis’s hands are totally clean. He has mistreated abuse cases in the past. Around 2019 he actually started implementing some reforms that have to some extent helped. While I don’t think he did enough, he did much more than his predecessors. I highly suspect the next pope will be another Benedict and not another Francis. Consequently, I suspect that the mishandling will get worse.
Looks like it’s time for another pope race. I would like to throw my hat in the ring. As a lapsed Catholic trans woman who’s never so much as visited a seminary, I know I’m an unorthodox choice. But maybe it’s time to mix things up. My central campaign planks? We’re going to bring back indulgences and try to make the Papal States a thing again. Also, expect skits and improv sessions to have a big place in Catholic mass in the future!
Only guys can be Pope.
But according to TERFs and fash, she is a guy though
Eh. Rules are arbitrary and can be changed.
I know I’m an unorthodox choice.
There’s a joke somewhere in here
Your candidacy would put the Church in quite a predicament, for sure. They could either embrace a trans woman as a leader (confirming that there’s nothing wrong with trans people) or reject her for being a woman (therefore admitting that one can, in fact, change their gender).
Of course, this is a false dichotomy, but a good PR team could spin it as a human rights win either way.
“As a lapsed Catholic trans woman who’s never so much as visited a seminary, I know I’m an unorthodox choice.”
As someone in the same position good luck
“That was because he refused to welcome god-king JD vance in person!!! God punished the pope for his impertinence!!!”
- Some MAGA-Nut somewhere, probably
- Some MAGA-Nut somewhere, probably
probably closer to all of 'em
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