Has anyone tried this? It’s discord reverse engineered.
I set this container up yesterday. Technically it’s running. But all the settings are in the fucking sql db, and I know fuck all about sql other than drop tables is funny meme from xkcd. But also, ignoring the settings, I would like to point out that there is effectively no client. I mean, there are two official ones - the depreciated one, and the alpha one, and the alpha one has a total of 4 releases with the newest being two years ago. How do you deprecate a client when the server is still in alpha? What the fuck? And on all pages it screams ‘this is alpha testing software, do not use as a daily’. Also the docs are, uhh… rough. If rough was falling 4 stories into a bed of poisonous cacti. It took me 3 hours to get the container running properly and finally poking at the db. It’s as organized as my bedroom (‘it’s somewhere in this dresser, I think…’).
The idea, the potential, is brilliant. Literally everything about getting it working though…
Lots of great software ideas out there. It’s always the execution, availability of resources, and the reality of capitalism getting in the way.
Until I get in the way of capitalism (with a shotgun)
I don’t see any options or mention of changing instances, beyond discord canary and public testing…? I might be blind
Containers = Yet Another Attack Surface.
So you’re offering to manage my ~40 services, and make sure that all the dependencies are met - and none conflict…?
I mean, I enjoy hosting things myself, but I’m not going to invite issues that have been resolved by simple solutions. I’ve been around the block with dependency hell, fuck all of that. Now if I was getting paid like 6 figures instead of zero, sure boss, whatever the fuck you say boss, job security all day long. But unless you’re offering, I’m sticking with the easy way.
I mean, that’s true regardless of how it is running. If the service is externally available, it will be probed for vulnerabilities. At least with a container, you can ward off what files it has access to, so an attacker can’t just ransomware your entire NAS with a single vulnerable service.
And thaaaat’s why it’s head/tailscale or nothing for me. I’m smart enough to know I don’t know enough to be absolutely confident I won’t get SHODAN’d and end up crying over a home network catastrophe, never feeling truly secure ever again.
Every now and then it’s tempting to get those fun features in containers like Nextcloud, like public links and federation, but it’s not worth the risk IMHO. Not when there’s state-class adversarial bots written by stupidly smart people roaming the landscape. <_<
Eh, containers are fine if you know what you’re doing. Just run them in a VM if you want more isolation.
Definitely not for the average user though.
HHhhmm… Do container/docker install option. This is why it’s probably stagnated in adoption from the selfhosted community.
It needs a container based install, no one likes installing dependencies and crud onto their pristine environments any longer.
It’s just not mentioned prominently https://github.com/spacebarchat/docker
last commit 3yrs ago… seems unmaintained
Docker compose’s don’t really need to be maintained though. As long as the app doesn’t need new components old docker composes should work.
EDIT: Oops, it does look like spacebarchat’s docker images have last been updated over 2 years ago:
https://hub.docker.com/r/spacebarchat/server
EDIT2: Although this is outdated, I think their github repo has an action to autobuild docker images on pushes. Still investigating.
EDIT3: Okay, they don’t seem to be actually ran.
But using nix to build a docker image is pretty cool.
EDIT4: Oh shit, the docker image build workflows were added just 2 hours ago. Of course they haven’t been ran!
Docker support soon, probably.
EDIT5: the workflow ran, but it looks like it’s private for now.
You got my heart racing with the twists!
Right? Reading that was like watching an action movie!
Perhaps more relevantly, the Docker image itself has not been updated in over 2 years: https://hub.docker.com/r/spacebarchat/server
Faster than my edits, I see.
It’s weird that the server has a .dockerignore file without a Dockerfile.
Seems like they’re working on Docker build actions right now according to some other comments
no one likes installing dependencies and crud onto their pristine environments any longer
It just depends, however, containers sure do make things a lot cleaner.
I do. I just completed pulling the core piped components (piped-backend, -frontend and -prox as well as -html-proxy) from Docker to native installs from the AUR, as well as installing searxng without a venv. Spacebar (the server and client) even have AUR pkgs, but they’re unmaintained… I’m gonna change that.
Why would one use this rather than just using something like Matrix or self-hosted Stoat? I’m not sure what it being “Discord compatible” really gets this project. Bot compatibility is nice, but aren’t most Discord bots closed source anyway?
Because Stoat is also riddled with problems and Matrix is a dysfunctional hot mess.
I mean, if you want Matrix AND that it works, you just install ejabberd or prosody and go on with your life. But then there’s nothing fancy to report or brag about, it just works.
How is Matrix dysfunctional?
Where do I even start…
- The verification process constantly breaks
- Sessions get randomly unverified
- Pictures aren’t being send occasionally
- Their client is a UI/UX catastrophe
- Room Events are incompatible (esp. w/ Element X)
- The “experimental” voice rooms are total trash, settings are not working (e.g. auto-gain can’t be disabled)
- The Calls via Jitsi somehow have a worse UX than Skype had in its worst days
- The verification via emojis uses different emoji styles, missing the point completely
- Due to the session mess “Can’t decrypt message” will be your best friend
- Even if you got a verified session it sometimes fails to decrypt a message
- The federation is SLOW. As in “wait many many minutes” slow.
- The whole Spaces-with-detached-rooms concept is a mess
- There’re no proper moderation tools
- There isn’t even a god damn admin panel! For the longest time you had to MANUALLY CURL THE API. Even today you have to mess with third-party admin panels that usually don’t have all options exposed
- Encryption is nice, but Matrix leaking tons of metadata isn’t.
- They effectively stopped developing the Element client in favour of Element X, which isn’t available in desktop. And also loves to break during verification.
- Third-party clients sometimes work better, but certainly don’t expect anything but text chats with pictures there.
I really tried to like it, I even attempted to move a community over, attempted to self-host, all the jazz. It’s a steaming mess for years now with no end in sight, and literally everyone who tried it eventually left disenchanted. Don’t even bother trying it.
This was my experience. Every time people suggest it as a Discord alternative I’m like, have you actually tried it? I hate Discord as much as the next guy but Matrix doesn’t get anywhere close. I tried really hard to like it and give it a chance, but no.
They mock people for not self-hosting it, calling it a ‘skill issue.’ I mean, not everyone has the time and energy to deal with that level of friction.
In the proper timeline the superior proprietary platform Axon beat out Discord.
The cumulative hours we’ve lost screwing around with the manual placement spacial audio on Axon… When it went tits up we switched to Mumble tho
Well, Stoat sucks and has no vision or history of reasonably paced development. So, it’s more of a vaporware wish then actual software.
Decentralized (no abuse of power and doesn’t have a single point of failure)
There is a direct server though, is it federated? The readme doesn’t say it’s federated at all
It’s not federated, just easy to self host and point custom clients at.
That’s too bad, that’s a hard line for me, it has to have the option of federation.
Also, so it’s a direct server, so it is centralized, there’s nothing decentralized about it
It is decentralized in the respect that communities run their own servers, in comparison to discord where there is an overarching corporation managing everything
But that’s not decentralized. It’s the same as discord, only instead of a corporation now you have a server admin.
Are you sure? Because they also seem to be behind Fermi which sounds federated
Fermi is just a custom client for discord/spacebar. It’s not federated.
3 years of abandonment? Absolutely not.
Where are you getting three years of abandonment from? The branding repo OP linked was last updated 10 months ago, while the server repo appears to have had pretty steady development for the last month at least (as far back as I bothered checking on mobile)
This wont go anywhere until they have an app that is easy to download. And then everyone says Revolt/Stoat but that doesnt even fucking work cause their verification system is ass (probably because they use gen AI to code) and also is difficult to download the mobile app
Their verification system has been my boss fight the last 48 hours. I want to get off of discord. PLEASE LET ME!
Stoat has 3rd party clients that are easy to install, I already got the Clerotri app downloaded directly from Accrescent on GrapheneOS (although I believe they have an F-Droid release).
Still has AI generated code. I tried setting up an account and despite it saying the email to verify your account would take up to 10 minutes, it actually would take hours. And I can’t sign up with my proton email (managed to get it to work with my gmail), while my friend cant get it to verify with their gmail.
Edit: Also have I have not found clients on fdroid or aurora store. I could only find the old Revolt app by adding its own fdroid repository and it hasnt been updated in years
Does any of that actually indicate AI generated code, or was that just unrelated/speculation?
I feel I can’t really blame them for having horribly delayed verification, thanks to the sudden influx of users. I signed up nearly a year ago and it was normal then.
Ah on the storefront side, sorry. I made an educated guess, but I guess it’s not a good one XD.
Here is the Stoat/Revolt wiki with a complete list of clients (official and 3rd party) that you can check btw: https://wiki.rvlt.gg/index.php/Stoat_Clients
I wasn’t aware of the AI-generated code part, I’ll take a look at source to verify.
Interesting, seems like this has been around for a while but I haven’t heard of it until now. With how much Discord’s shitting the fan and becoming (well, always has been) a privacy nightmare, this seems worth a try. The alternatives out there either need time to mature (Stoat) or don’t really fill the same role (Matrix).
shitting the fan
Huh, like a more disastrous and direct combo-approach. I like it.
You know I didn’t even realize I said this and I’m gonna start using this one LMFAO
Spacebar was called Fosscord before. Maybe you have heard of that.
Never heard of it either. Will check out cuz initially sounded like some vibecode app to quickly replace Discord since the news.
It’s been around a few years. I investigated it last year. It had a name change some times ago.
I can’t vouch for the code quality, but it’s too old to be slop.
Doesn’t seem terribly well-maintained.
EDIT>> As was properly pointed out to me, I was judging based on the wrong repo. The server repo indeed has work being done on it, so it looks like this is getting updates and moving forward.
This is just a link to the branding repo. There isnt much to maintain in there.
I see, thank you. I withdraw my comment since the server repo certainly looks more maintained. The client repo seems stale, but the software does seem to be getting work on it, so that’s great!
The Spacebar alternative client, Fermi, is more actively maintained from my understanding
So is IRC and Matrix.
