So long as they’re not moving on to a new one, good. Religion is a plague on human society. We don’t need it holding us back.
Jedi religion rose dramatically from 1900 to today.
Ugh. They’re probably worse than a lot of them.
Abducting extremely young children into their cult. Teaching them to suppress their emotions, telling them to cut all families ties.
Someone ought to order their temples shut down to bring peace and stability to the
galaxyworld.
Be careful that anti-theism may e as harmful as any fundamentalist religion: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u3D4tMVaO7k
What I think is not that we should “abolish” religion (granted that I know you did not propose that. I’m just extrapolating from “religion is a plague”)
I think we should move to exploring different religions without holding any of them as superior to the other, or at least not judging before reading a it more on your own accord and desire.
Someone pointed about issues on buddhism, which are true issues.
But eastern religions take from buddhism, taoism and confucionism religions and it is not uncommon to take a few different takes from each one of these as one goes in their own studies.
Same way, I think the rise of pagan religions would be useful to have the idea of being exposed to different concepts of religious ideas
Or similarly, different philosophical ideas, like reading from plato, but also from hume, but also from descartes, but also from…
As long as one doesn’t stay stagnant on the same philosophical pool, there is no harm browsing (with sufficient care) other ideas.
Depends on the religion. But as a whole, what we thing of “religions”, are definitely a net negative with our knowledge of the world. We no longer need to rely on superstition to survive.
Some religions are more a way of life rather than a structured creator being system with strict rules and exclusionary politics. Religions like Christianity/Judaism/Islam are quite different from Shinto or Buddhism for instance.
There’s still some toxicity around Buddhism at least. Living in SEA I now know several people who are really turned off by the practices and beliefs of their family’s religion, Buddhism, from the way all troubles are explained away as karma to neurodiversity and Learning Differences being hidden because that would mean that person did something bad in their past life.
I used to think Buddhism specifically was the “good” religion that’s more like philosophy, but spending more time with people who grew up deep in Buddhism has made me see there’s really more to the community and it’s beliefs and practices than I thought.
Like all religion, it can be messed up and carried on.
Sort of like when the winter solstice turned into “dead and buried three days, then rose again” and a bunch of zombie religions are still around.
That’s for Spring (rebirth, Easter), not Winter.
Christmas is for Winter, it celebrates the birth of Jesus Christ. It came from Saturnalia, probably the most important holiday of Roman society.
No. I mean, first of all let’s start with the fact that both Winter solstice and Spring Equinox were so-called pagan holidays that Christianty subsumed. Right? Let’s start there.
Then let’s understand that those so-called pagan holidays were traditions based on earlier - much earlier - observances. And those observances were astronomical in origin.
The winter solstice is when the sun stops moving for three days - it rises in the same location whereas all the time before that it had been moving slightly every day.
After those three days it starts moving back. That’s the birth. Life is born again. We’re going to make it around the sun another time. That sort of thing.
Spring / Vernal equinox is when we make sure everyone has progeny. Rabbits. Flowers. Eggs. Chrisitanity decided to appropriate this one to mark Jesus’ ascent into heaven. Fine. But irrelevant. Because it has nothing to do with life on earth - very literally, it’s about leaving earth and going to heaven.
That’s why there’s such a disconnect about crucifixion and rabbits and eggs. They don’t have anything to do with each other because the church yoinked a pagan tradition to keep people from celebrating it outside the church.
That makes a lot of sense. Until you consider that around Winter solstice, Christians don’t celebrate the resurrection, yhey celebrate the birth. How do you explain that disconnect?
This explains some of the reasoning, although because it was 350 CE they can’t confirm anything with 100% certainty. Such is history.
What is certain to anyone who has studied it even a little bit is that the winter solstice was near-universally recognized by all cultures prior to the common era.
December 25 is very often the solstice, or close enough to it that it was selected by some as the annual celebration for their deity of choice. As the article notes, in Rome that was the birthday of Sol Invictus. It’s also the birthday of Saturn, Mithras, and depending on whether you believe some fourth-century Christian authors, also Horus.
So Pope Julius “chose” - note that no one is in any doubt the date was selected, it wasn’t like Jesus’ old birthday cards were found and everyone knew that was his actual birthday - Pope Julius chose Dec 25 as the annual celebration day for Jesus. That became known as his birthday. But it wasn’t. What it WAS was the winter solstice.
Its a problem with all of them. How can any christians be non pacifist when direct from christs mouth was the very direct command:
“Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any man will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have thy cloke also. And whosoever shall compel thee to go a mile, go with him twain.”
I have had discussion and its ludicrous the other parts they engage in mental gymnastics to work around it. Its the same with the 4 noble truths and the 8 fold way. Its pretty obvious its about looking inward and delving into anyone elses life except to help them would be feeding into desire. Sihks have this whole thing about goofy practices of other religions and then have their own goofy practices. No idea how jainism gets corrupted or other faiths off the top of my head but im sure they are there.
There’s a lot of Buddhist teachings I agree with but do we really need all the supernatural baggage to teach people to be less materialistic and to be kind to each other?
I’ve found Zen Buddhist koans, essentially short stories to be contemplated over, to be deeply calming and insightful.
My favorite one is this.
"A man was walking through the jungle, when he spotted a tiger. The man immediately fled, but the tiger gave chase. Approaching a cliff, the man saw only one option… A hanging vine. He jumped off of the cliff and grabbed the vine, hanging on for dear life.
The tiger came to the edge of the cliff, snarling.
Just as the man thought he was in the clear, he noticed another tiger prowling below.
And then, if things weren’t difficult enough, the man then saw two mice above him (one black, one white) gnawing away at the vine.
In this state of impending doom, the man looked over his shoulder to the sight of a strawberry patch on a ledge, at arm’s length.
The man reached over, plucked a strawberry and ate it. It was the best damn strawberry he ever had."
Just because they aren’t theist doesn’t mean they don’t have horrible backwards teachings. Most people are good without religion. Religion creates situations where otherwise good people do evil, because they’re told it is actually good.
Most people are not good without religion, they are good because of civilization. If society breaks down, everyone is going to get real mean, real quick.
The most evil people in Nazi Germany were generally anti-religious.
Even with civilisation or society, there’s always been a subset of people looking to exploit whatever facet of existence they can, whether it be religion, politics, crimes of opportunity, weaknesses in social systems, or even the justice systems that are supposedly meant to deal with those flaws.
And to add even more complexity, other people who aren’t pieces of shit looking to exploit others form emotional attachments to those who are and are fooled by their lies and will defend them. Others don’t have attachments but see parallels to themselves and worry that attempts to deal with the problematic ones will result in the same treatment being applied to them (and aren’t necessarily wrong because even justice trying to act in good faith can get it wrong).
It’s all a complex web of power struggles and religion is just one set of stands.
Hard disagree. Yes, when people are desperate they’re capable of horrible things, but most people won’t shoot a home intruder even if they went through the process of purchasing a gun for home defence and have someone break in. Everyone is capable of great evil, but they are not evil. Most people will choose to cooperate if they can.
Also, I’d say the most evil Nazis were religious. Their religion was Nazism though. They had a belief (that they were told was scientific, but wasn’t) that some people were better than others, and some groups actively needed to be removed to make the rest of us better in the future. It’s the same beliefs religions create, and it was also based in faith, just not of a god.
“
MoneyReligion is the root of all evil.”
Christianity is basically just a pedophile ring at this point
That’s a bit unfair to the people who are in just for the homophobia
Or trans phobia
Or the ones who hate colored people
But just look at how it brings people together (to rape the kids and hate the minorities). Surely there’s societal value in leaving them a breeding ground.
And they need your money!
Religon is brain cancer.
It’s a control mechanism from some of the earliest human societies, and today it is a dangerous tool that was just left lying around for any con man to take advantage of.
I can’t find any sources for this now, but a while back I read an article that basically said in the 1500s (roughly) people were starting to turn against the rich holding the bulk of the wealth. So the rich met up with some priests over a tankard of mead and came up with the idea that the church should say the rich deserved their wealth.
That is weird to me because Jesus repeatedly condemned the rich. He even violently kicked them out of temples by whipping them and flipping tables. Jesus even said the wealthy will never enter into heaven. Jesus was essentially a proto-communist
Former Christian here, I’m still very partial to this verse:
Come now, you rich, weep and howl for your miseries that are coming upon you! Your riches are corrupted, and your garments are moth-eaten. Your gold and silver are corroded, and their corrosion will be a witness against you and will eat your flesh like fire. You have heaped up treasure in the last days. Indeed the wages of the laborers who mowed your fields, which you kept back by fraud, cry out; and the cries of the reapers have reached the ears of the Lord of Sabaoth. You have lived on the earth in pleasure and luxury; you have fattened your hearts as in a day of slaughter. You have condemned, you have murdered the just; he does not resist you.
Wow that’s a banger, thank you for introducing me to it.
I agree. I look at it this way…how many of those that claim to be Christian actually have Christian values or live by the Ten Commandments?
The south were pissed the north judged them for slavery, so they schismed the Baptist church to the southern Baptist church, where the only difference is that slavery was a commandment from God, and black people deserved it becausw of https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curse_of_Ham?wprov=sfla1
It’s weird how many religions tell you to obey priests without question, isn’t it?
It’s nothing new either. Kings were given divine rule before capitalism was a thing for centuries before.
Haha, that’s certainly a curious interpretation of the crisis of the 16th century. You’re referring to this: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protestant_work_ethic
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_General_Crisis
This series basically modernises a classic book on the subject that’s about 100 years old on the topic if you want to know more: https://hellonearth.chapotraphouse.com/views/podcast/
Dunno…too long ago for me to remember many details and as I said, I can’t find a source.
FWIW, those events took place in the USA though, and the article I’m referring to specifically mentioned the U.K.
The 16th Century Crisis was across Europe and that last link centers around the UK in the end in the English Civil War. It’s a whole thing that led up to it.
Well that might explain christianity but what about other religions like Hindu, buddhism etc.
The idea of religion is different there and it’s more of a way of life rather than believing in a supreme god.
I think religion is capable of doing great things, but yeah, more often than not it seems to be a gateway to fascism and other extreme right dictatorships.
The red text of Jesus was based. It taught me that God weeps for the sparrows so we also should value and protect nature. Jesus washing the disgusting feet of people who walked around all day in sandals without socks taught me that truly great leaders use their position to serve the weak and vulnerable. Jesus warning that it was impossible for the wealthy to enter heaven and ordering us to take care of the poor just like we would take care of him if he needed it taught me empathy and helped me become a communist.
So yeah, Christian communism is based, but Christianity under capitalism becomes a tool of fascism.
Whats funny is when they leave their childhood one and go to another. The new one seems better because they don’t know enough about it.
Some do, some don’t. Most ex-mormons like myself don’t end up going to another religion. We already have a community of like-minded people on the outside.
Kirsten Lesage, Kelsey Jo Starr, and William Miner titled this erroneously. The title should be:
#Children are learning cults are bad, and their parents tried to indoctrinate them against their will
Just like they leave behind their other imaginary friends
Not me. I was born a snake handler and I’ll die a snake handler.
my mom: “I just want a community to hang out with on Sundays and sing comforting hymns with. I don’t know why instead, everyone has to be weird about it.”
If that’s all churches did nobody would be celebrating their demise
I’m a proud atheist. And I get where she is coming from. Community is lacking and that’s sad.
it’s a vicious cycle under capitalism. community breakdown pushes people into dependency on products and subscriptions, which means they have to work more hours to afford them, which means they then need more products and subscriptions because they have less free time, but then they’ll need to work more hours to afford it, repeat ad absurdum until social collapse
She should try joining a D&D group instead.
lol she’d make a great cleric
cleric character who is fed up with corruption and bigotry in their church and goes on a divine quest to establish the Church of We Just Want To Hang Out and Sing Hymns Without Anyone Making It Weird
I did, then returned but… Not to the hateful, exclusionary version taught by parentals.
The thing I notice is there’s not really a good substitute for talking about the big questions yet.
I mean, I’m not missing any religion, but practically there was an hour or so a week dedicated specifically to thinking and talking about life from a non-materialistic perspective, and I think a lot of people now just - never do.
Isn’t that what we do on lemmy?
Not really! I mean like - why does life exist? Is there any relevance in the idea of reincarnation? Does time exist outside of us? What is “good works”?
Someone hold forth on a personal story that exemplifies something good.
You’d think we have enough stoners to get something like that going, but not really. And the esoterica side of Lemmy is very tiny and not well-attended.
tbh I think tumblr’s got more of a corner on that kind of work/vibe.
Not that Lemmy can’t or won’t become that but at the moment it’s more like alternate reality reddit which atm is just fine for most people.
Is there any relevance in the idea of reincarnation?
Of course. In Theravāda Buddhism you will find a highly literal interpretation as well as a more general, “spiritual” interpretation.
In a literal, mechanical, scientific sense, the cells in your body are constantly dying and being replaced using nutrients in the food you eat. The universe is moving through you. You are parts of every other organism that has existed on earth. You are parts of every human on earth. Every other human is parts of every other human on earth. What you do to others is done to yourself. Be kind to people.
I hope it isn’t like the similarly named subreddit where the moderator was against calling Elon’s salute for what it was.
I’ll be honest and a bit jaded, These “uplifting” comunities do feel a bit like the “this is fine” meme (https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/this-is-fine)
Not that I am against uplifting news. I’m just cautious because I’ve seen a fair share of nazi dogwhistle associated with this idea.
Ha ha “pew research”
🙃
I believed in Santa longer than I believed in God. I don’t know how that happened.
Santa was more believable.
Youngest of 5 i never even had a chance to believe in Santa.
I have always believed that religious and non religious people have both dismissed the existence of different forms of life, though. Not supernatural or extraterrestrial but more non-carbon based.
Not surprising.
From personal experience, you find out pretty quickly that most of your peers are hypocrites that are rewarded, rather then punished.
Most people have already left, they just don’t realise. If you don’t go to church or mosque (probably not Buddhism or Hinduism) you already essentially betrayed the values you once were told to hold, but people are scared to admit because of metaphysical punishments in the afterlife
If not that, then public repercussions prevent them from admitting, and what once held the place of religion in communities is quickly being replaced with ideology instead, it provides community, tenets to follow, laws to abide by, and gives purpose for those who lack it
This started way in the past, and Russia would have likely also been more atheist than orthodox if the USSR didn’t turn priests into martyrs by forcing a non religious status quo onto everyone and becoming a dictatorial tyrant with so called dictatorship of the “proletariat” which usually only turns into a dictatorship where only bureaucrats and party members exist in.
