Im seeing this just after having a while conversation about conservative Christians making a big deal about ‘finding truth in faith’ after the Kirk shooting and this feels similar to me
There’s this clear implication that the ‘truth’ can only be found through your ideological worldview, and a complete abandoning of any attempt at justifying or supporting it through reason. Any piece of information that’s misaligned is dismissed as propaganda - but what’s especially annoying is that it doesn’t even have to be coherently opposed to truth but merely distracting from what’s supposedly more important.
Americans are one of the most propagandized populations on the planet - but I wouldn’t even put Russia in the top 5 sources of it.
TBH, Rupert Murdock HELPED Putin refine/put RT on steroids. He was marketing his propaganda (division) here in the USA since Reagan let him through the door. Russian extras are just a bump up in the last 10-15 years.
THE LARGEST MOST COMMONLY WATCHED BEST FUNDED MEDIA OUTLET ISNT MAINSTREAM MEDIA!!1!
😡
I’m against the corporate elite which is why I parrot the media they stuff in my face!
This is true. Also there are zero mainstream media outlets that are not propaganda of some kind or another at this point. When you intentionally read all kinds of biased news it becomes more and more obvious.
To be fair, everyone’s views are shaped by propaganda of some kind, it’s quite literally unavoidable if you exist within any society. Lots of people like to think that their ideas are just the product of their own independent thinking, but that isn’t really how people work.
The current state American society has been in for the last 10 to 15 years is heavily a consequence of Russian info ops. Many countries run info ops. But no country has done as much damage as Russia
We need a national online forum
No other country has done as much? We’re gonna just ignore how much support Israel has thrown behind Trump? Netanyahu was meeting and communicating with him during the 2024 election cycle, all while ignoring the Biden administration! Snubbing a sitting president for a prospective candidate!
Yeah, no. American Oligarchs did social media. Youtube, Twitter, facebook, instagram all American. First they did it for money now they are doing it openly for power. Cambridge Analytica, anti-vax, anti-trans, anti-abortion, anti-immigrant all of these are made by Americans to poison the world. And they are going to do much worse with AI. Americans destroyed the world.
You understand the difference between a medium and the content on that medium right?
That’s a rhetorical question since you clearly don’t.
Do you? Control over the medium is far more powerful than being a mere user of that medium.
Corporate control over an algorithm that decides who is served what content is a platform-agnostic tool of power over society. We’re seeing that danger manifest in old and new ways every single day. That lever of power allows whomever owns that particular medium to push whatever content they like. That is the entire motivation behind and purpose of the Fediverse and other decentralization efforts.
Zuck and muskrat separate populations, push propaganda and influence discussions at an unprecedented level. The control a single corporation, a single authoritarian point of power has over such vast swathes of population dwarfs the propagandic power of Goebbles and Stalin by an order of magnitude or more.
I don’t blame America explicitly like the other commenter. The conditions that have allowed the billionaire class to explode and wield power and influence exist elsewhere in the world as well. That said, America’s legal and regulatory frameworks did provide particularly fertile breeding grounds for the exploitation and hoarding of capital that produces billionaires.
Cambridge Analytica,
That’s British
anti-vax,
Andrew Wakefield, the guy who started the antivax movement, is British
anti-trans,
The US passed laws protecting trans people and many Americans are literally trans or allies. Russia however, is extremely anti-trans.
anti-abortion,
See the above point
anti-immigrant
See the above point, also, America is a country of immigrants and refugees, “Melting Pot,” America was one of the first countries to encourage and mobilize massive movements of immigrants, which sheltered them from oppressive governments looking to hurt them. This includes people fleeing from Russia and their wars and genocides like the Holodomor.
The US passed laws protecting trans people and many Americans are literally trans or allies. Russia however, is extremely anti-trans.
ahh, to live in 2014 again.
It’s still here in 2025. America isn’t a bunch of fascist MAGAs, even if we are being taken over by Russian assets and Russian propaganda.
my sibling in Christ, Reps. Mace and Jackson literally shouted the t-slur yesterday and called for all trans people to be forcibly institutionalized. Trump said he “wouldn’t oppose” banning the trans flag when a reporter asked about “transtifa.” Musk retweeted someone who called trans women “perverted, deranged bioweapons” and trans men “osteoporotic, androgynous goblins,” calling us to be contained and forbidden to communicate with each other. along with someone else calling for a total ban on HRT for all ages. we’ve been kicked out of the military, and stripped of security clearances. the DoJ has floated banning us from gun ownership by ruling that we’re “mentally defective.” my passport has an M on it because Trump reverted all the rules on his first day in office. it’s a literal felony for trans women to use the women’s bathroom in Florida, and for trans office workers to use their own pronouns. coverage for trans health has been stripped from nearly every public service. trans protections have recently been eviscerated in Skrmetti.
it’s really not going great.
They are not America even if they seized fascist control of America. America is the people here and that includes activists and trans people. That includes you and me.
That we cry out and care is evidence the universe cries out and cares, since we are part of the universe as well. The universe through us cries out.
That we cry out and care is evidence Americans care, because we are both Americans. It is so so so important to not equate America with hate, but instead to equate the MAGA admin with hate.
And regardless, those anti-trans laws are literally Putin/Russian as a policy - remember how Russia got mad at the Olympic boxer and demanded she be tested? Russia literally funded the politicians for those laws, made all the propaganda pieces and ads, etc etc etc. And ofc some traitors and assholes went with it.
The key is to be constantly aware of it. Never follow someone blindly.
That’s true, but you still follow some propaganda. You are aware of it, great, but what’s the difference between someone following the propaganda being aware of it and someone following it blindly?
Intent, mindfulness, and informed decision making?
I mean, knowing that something is technically propaganda does not make it wrong or make it taboo to repeat. The word has a negative connotation because it’s typically used to describe the “other” guys, sure, but its meaning is very broad.
If I were to say the phrase “fuck Nestle” or even just the term “DeGoogle” one could correctly label those as anti-corporate propaganda with an agenda to harm the interests of an untold number of shareholders. Heck, thanks to broadly diversified 401k investment fund options, I am probably one of them and future me could lose entire dollars.
Is anybody on Lemmy going to shake their finger at me for repeating those two pieces of targeted, agenda-driven propaganda though? I certainly don’t feel icky for saying it. I bet I could even say something negative about the president of the united states without feeling embarrassed. :]
I am not going to believe your propaganda! My pristine, untainted thoughts won’t take this slander. /s
You’re not wrong. I like to think I’m immune to proponganda because I’m anarchist but it’s pretty obvious that I can be fooled just as easily as anyone by the pretense of speaking truth to power
While that is true, some propaganda is definitely more harmful while some others are relatively harmless.
Yes, but most propaganda is not specifically fascist in nature.
Is there propaganda that is fascist in nature? It’s bad propaganda then. Can you give an example? Propaganda should always be for all good and everyone’s happiness. Specifics don’t matter, you can bring the followers wherever you want later.
Same statement from me, very different result. Death to fascists!
ML is basically the same too.
whipping out my Horseshoe Theory graph
So, as you can see, the tips of the horseshoe are where the Russian Propaganda lives.
I prefer the Pac-Man interpretation
Hey horseshoe theory, wanna… touch tips?
So I’ve seen.
Uh huh. The ol’ ‘anyone who criticizes NATO proxy wars is a Russian stooge.’
As opposed to the old “only the Great Powers have agency” gambit, which is actual Russian propaganda. Heaven forbid countries other than the US, Russian and China be even conceived of being able to take actions on their own.
And what actions are those? Like partnering with the west to install a far-right regime?
Yeah, let’s just ignore the right-wing think tanks, the majority of conservative/MAGA influencers who aren’t on Russia’s payroll, and right-wing “news” organizations. It’s totally just Russia and not right-wingers trying to destroy the country to grab all the power for themselves…
The majority ARE on Russia’s payroll, it’s literally how they got famous. They were blackmailable, due to crimes including visiting illegal porn sites and snuff sites, which has content literally made by Putin of his prisoners and people he dislikes to warn others to stay in line and to get blackmail.
So Russia picks someone they can blackmail FIRST, and THEN has them make content that they advertise and have bot armies (slaves, human slaves) talk about in comments etc. They do this EXACT strategy wirh crypto tickers and with fundraisers like for Gaza. If the bots (HUMAN SLAVES) do not perform well, they get tortured, starved, etc. It is literally thousands of people in these networks, and they are working in concert with BRICS, not just Russia.
Rightwingers are just the excuse BRICS needs to "liberate " the US from Nazis. They need a Nazi takeover, but an incompetent one, so they can attack us and look like the good guys and still win. Our economy is collapsing, healthcare and food and farming (which farming is the foundation of the stock market fyi) all collapsing. Education collapsing. It’s bad already from their attacks, idk how it isn’t obvious.
Maybe you didn’t pay attention to when it happened to other countries, thats why Romanians, Serbians, Georgians, Slovakians all saw it and protested. It’s also why Russia explicitly labeled Ukraine as being taken over by Nazis and insists Ukraine is a proxy war started by the US and EU. It’s why they fund Nazis (AFD) in Germany. It’s why Elon supports the AFD. Elon also betrayed the US by illegally giving Putin Starlink satellites in 2022, which were paid for and funded by the US. That’s a huge part of why he was so freaked out Trump would lose - he should be sitting in the ICC right now for being a traitor and giving Putin those satellites.
You can source your claims. I’ll wait. There is too much here that is hyperbole or speculation and not based in reality, even if there are points sprinkled in that I agree with largely or in part. If a majority of right-wing influencers are literally and currently traitors, that is a serious accusation and requires serious proof. Let’s do something about it if you have evidence to support your assertions.
And social media companies are the ones promoting these influencers and their channels and putting people in bubbles with their algorithms. Not properly moderating comment sections is also a choice of social media companies. Advertisers also have no problem funding these right-wing influencers either.
Citizens are responsible for keeping their countries healthy, their media fair, and their governments and elected officials representing their interests.
As for BRICS “liberating us” from Nazis - no, we got this. Farming was already unsustainable for reasons unrelated to Trump.
Please see American Kompromat by Unger and Active Measures documentary linked elsewhere itt.
Regarding illicit content/ snuff, here’s a much smaller example with monkey torture rings: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-65951188
Torture by Putin’s admin in prisons: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62465043
https://www.rferl.org/a/russia-prison-torture-rape-videos/31493651.html
https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-58978613
Cyberwarfare by Russia, including propaganda: https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/exploring-cyber-darkness-how-moscow-undermines-the-west-via-the-dark-web/
Bots are actually large human slave networks: https://www.npr.org/2025/05/23/1253043749/pig-butchering-scam-crypto-tether
US election interference (there’s actually a lot of these links but I’ll post most recent I know of): https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy2766
Here’s one more: https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/01/us-election-software-national-security-threats-00176615
Romania election interference: https://thesoufancenter.org/intelbrief-2024-december-13/
Georgia election interference: https://www.fpri.org/article/2025/03/russian-influence-operations-in-georgia-a-threat-to-democracy-and-regional-stability/
Slovakia election interference: https://misinforeview.hks.harvard.edu/article/beyond-the-deepfake-hype-ai-democracy-and-the-slovak-case/
Serbia election interference: https://octopusinstitute.org/foreign-interference-in-elections-and-its-impact-on-democracy-and-national-security-the-case-of-kosovo/
Crypto funds rightwing extremists, usually in preparation for an election takeover: https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2025/01/report-crypto-donations-right-wing-extremist-groups-rising-especially-europe/402427/
Russia funds rightwing social media in the US: https://www.npr.org/2024/09/07/nx-s1-5101895/doj-says-russia-paid-right-wing-influencers-to-spread-russian-propaganda
Russia called Ukraine Nazis: https://www.adl.org/resources/article/why-putin-calling-ukrainian-government-bunch-nazis
Russia and stooge says Ukraine war is proxy war: https://www.reuters.com/world/kremlin-says-rubios-view-ukraine-conflict-us-russia-proxy-war-matches-that-putin-2025-03-06/
AFD is explicitly pro-Russian: https://thehill.com/opinion/international/5167235-germanys-afd-presents-a-clear-and-present-danger-to-the-global-order/
Musk supports AFD: https://www.cnn.com/2025/01/09/world/musk-livestream-afd-weidel-germany-intl
Musk in contact with Putin: https://www.pbs.org/newshour/politics/what-to-know-about-elon-musks-reported-phone-calls-with-putin-and-why-it-matters
Musk funded a dark money group ($100mil) that pretended to be Democrats and astroturfed: https://www.opensecrets.org/news/2024/10/pro-trump-dark-money-network-tied-to-elon-musk-behind-fake-pro-harris-campaign-scheme/
Starlink satellites are in Russia: https://www.reuters.com/world/europe/russia-using-thousands-spacex-starlink-terminals-ukraine-wsj-says-2024-02-15/
Russia’s Starlink access helping them win war: https://www.intellinews.com/elon-musk-s-starlink-is-turning-the-tide-of-the-ukraine-war-in-favour-of-russia-348292/
Russia developing own Starlink: https://www.reuters.com/world/china/russia-developing-starlink-rival-rapid-pace-space-chief-says-2025-09-17/
Let’s do something about it if you have evidence to support your assertions
Lol you sweet summer child. There’s a world war coming, the entire EU has been unable to stop this. What narcissism do you posess that you think this info, freely available to everyone, is new to them just because it is new to you?
Twitter is owned by Elon, who was given money by BRICS/Saudis (long story about UAE, Saudi Arabia, and Israel and.how they fit into BRICS) for this exact purpose.
Zuckerberg is owned by the US government along with Google, so they step in heel with whoever is in charge.
Yes, had we had a national online forum, this could’ve been prevented.
Tucker Carlson Funded by Russian Propaganda Machine, Justin Trudeau Testifies Under Oath https://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/story/justin-trudeau-tucker-calrson-russian-propaganda?srsltid=AfmBOoq46ydAPuJqfNAquGPraVEOGa-etrh7mNcTIf9RkeQgPgEY0qeo
He’s actually covered by my first sources, the Active Measures doc https://youtu.be/5umiMThrlsA
Meme for when someone decides this isn’t enough evidence, even though he hasn’t seen Active Measures or American Kompromat (most damning evidence imo)
Eta: Please stop editing your parent comment as a response to me, and just reply below so we can have a normal back and forth. You’ve had more than enough time while I got these links to finish the above comment.
Citizens are responsible for keeping their countries healthy, their media fair, and their governments and elected officials representing their interests.
? We are under active attack and warfare. Would you say this about Ukrainians or Gazans? This is victim blaming. This warfare is brand new, it’s like blaming Europe for not being able to defend themselves against Genghis Khan because he developed horseback warfare.
Further, you’ve just been given substantial links that Russia is funding and orchestrating a global Nazi fascist movement for possibly billions of dollars and killing millions for a global war, which makes them Nazis that are allied with China, India, etc.
I want to thank you for sourcing most of your claims and engaging with me in good faith. I wish you sourced the claim I specifically asked for, but alas, I’ll engage with what you posted.
Please see American Kompromat by Unger and Active Measures documentary linked elsewhere itt.
I will give it a watch and the former a read at a later time when I get over my illness, but the rise of Trump surely didn’t have anything to do with the DNC and Clinton campaign pushing Trump as a pied piper candidate and telling the media to take him seriously. Russia did not make the mainstream media mention him an uncountable number of times. Russia also does not fund domestic right-wing organizations that back Trump to the best of my knowledge.
From the verified, leaked DNC memo sent by the Clinton campaign in 2015:
Our hope is that the goal of a potential HRC campaign and the DNC would be one-‐in-‐the-‐same: to make whomever the Republicans nominate unpalatable to a majority of the electorate. We have outlined three strategies to obtain our goal:
- Force all Republican candidates to lock themselves into extreme conservative positions that will hurt them in a general election;
In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more “Pied Piper” candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party. Pied Piper candidates include, but aren’t limited to: • Ted Cruz • Donald Trump • Ben Carson
We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to them seriously.
It’s clear that the press took him seriously.
Regarding illicit content/ snuff, here’s a much smaller example with monkey torture rings: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-65951188
I’m not sure if that’s relevant to the discussion.
Torture by Putin’s admin in prisons: https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-62465043
I don’t disbelieve that.
Cyberwarfare by Russia, including propaganda: https://www.geopoliticalmonitor.com/exploring-cyber-darkness-how-moscow-undermines-the-west-via-the-dark-web/
Not entirely relevant to the discussion, but a lot of these vectors could be mitigated through sane practices like not exposing our e.g. energy infrastructure to the open web.
https://www.politico.com/news/2024/09/01/us-election-software-national-security-threats-00176615
Long read, got through most of it. States and our country being broadly incompetent with our voting systems is well-known. We can do better at any point to standardize systems, increase oversight and transparency, improve efficiency, and vastly improve security. Experts and other influential figures have been sounding the alarm for a long time.
[sources of election interference in Europe]
I don’t live in these countries and I did not experience these happenings, but I will say that it is incredibly more plausible to me that Russia is more overtly influencing European politics, and I don’t need a wealth of evidence to hold that position. Thanks for the links though, I will check them out on my own time.
Crypto funds rightwing extremists, usually in preparation for an election takeover: https://www.defenseone.com/threats/2025/01/report-crypto-donations-right-wing-extremist-groups-rising-especially-europe/402427/
Unregulated, speculative, and essentially untraceable currencies should not have ever been able to be converted to other currencies and exist in the form that they have. I am unsurprised, but at the same time I believe that we can do better.
[various sources relating to the Ukraine sovereignty war/Russian invasion]
I am a believer in sovereignty and I support the people of Ukraine. I’ll leave it at that.
[various sources relating to Musk & Starlink]
Yes, Musk is very likely a traitor and is not a good faith actor. The facts are in evidence, yet you are the first person I have seen consolidating this information.
Lol you sweet summer child. There’s a world war coming, the entire EU has been unable to stop this.
The EU has done nothing concrete on multiple fronts. The Biden administration also largely abandoned Ukraine…
I don’t see a world war or a civil war coming, call me naive but I feel there is little appetite from populaces across the world. I don’t believe China would seriously position themselves with Russia against the world, despite recent developments which I am aware of. Again, maybe I’m naive, but I’ll hold my position.
Yes, had we had a national online forum, this could’ve been prevented.
I disagree, I am a firm believer in decentralized social media. I dislike Lemmy and other fediverse platforms for a few key reasons that we may agree on, but they are the best we have currently. Specific countries could regulate or tailor domestic decentralized media to fit their needs. Centralized, mostly unregulated, and advertiser-driven media has got us into the mess we are in.
Tucker Carlson Funded by Russian Propaganda Machine, Justin Trudeau Testifies Under Oath
I don’t see Justin Trudeau or Tucker Carlson as good faith actors. I need evidence.
We are under active attack and warfare. Would you say this about Ukrainians or Gazans? This is victim blaming. This warfare is brand new, it’s like blaming Europe for not being able to defend themselves against Genghis Khan because he developed horseback warfare.
This is how democracy and representative governance works - it’s not victim-blaming.
Eta: Please stop editing your parent comment as a response to me, and just reply below so we can have a normal back and forth. You’ve had more than enough time while I got these links to finish the above comment.
You are editing your comment, as well as your initial response to me, just as much as I am now trying to respond to you. My initial response to you was only mildly edited after I saw your edits. Chill, I want to make myself perfectly clear.
Further, you’ve just been given substantial links that Russia is funding and orchestrating a global Nazi fascist movement for possibly billions of dollars and killing millions for a global war, which makes them Nazis that are allied with China, India, etc.
Our right-wing think tanks and gems like Musk do plenty to influence European politics, as well.
To me, it seems that you are vastly overestimating BRICS. World war does not end well for anyone. It’s naive to suggest otherwise. I really hope you can calm yourself down, regardless of the evidence presented. War is never an inevitability or a certainty.
Article 4 of NATO was recently activated. Russia sent drones into Romania and Poland. Germany is uping their defenses. Biden admin didn’t abandon Ukraine, Trump made a point to call Biden a warmonger over it even.
If China didn’t want Russia to be in wars, they wouldn’t send over North Korean soldiers to Russia (NK is basically a satellite slave state of China). The world war already happened when they got involved. They just don’t want to escalate it until their war manufacturing and supplies are figured out.
China wants Taiwan and the South China Sea and probably Australia for the gold. Each BRICS member has major territories goals they want, eg India and the Indus River which also has gold. BRICS was explicitly made to destabilize USD and the Euro.
I am not saying to ban other social media, I am saying as a cornerstone of democracy, we need to be able to have forums with our government in official and secure ways, that we can track, and sue over free speech violations. We cannot do that with private companies including private servers. You can just get banned and silenced. Further, we should have streamlined ways of getting government notices, recalls, and contacting our officials. No upvotes or ads allowed.
I need evidence
Active Measures doc explicitly goes over Tucker Carlson and Trump and others. Please see that doc. That’s why you’re missing so much info. I’ve given it to you already. Also the book American Kompromat.
This is how democracy and representative governance works - it’s not victim-blaming.
Wow, really? I had no clue, because we’ve been living under active attacks to our governance and democracy specifically so we CAN’T do exactly that, so we DON’T have power, because it is a fascist takeover, including blackmailing numerous government officials and public figures. Fascists don’t respect democracy. And it is victim blaming, which supports abusers - in this case, supports Nazis and fascists. Nice.
You are editing your comment just as much as I am now trying to respond to you. Chill.
No, you don’t manage my feelings, and further, your edits messed with my other comment and made it reset. So I think I get to be annoyed that it cost me an extra 15min of my life trying to tell you stuff that you couldve googled yourself because you’re so geopolitically ignorant.
Oh and btw, if you need more evidence - go look it up. I am not in charge of your education and am just giving one basic link to support my points. If you want detailed info, be proactive and seek it out and learn. As it is, you come across as willfully and deliberately ignorant and needing to be spoonfed basic information the rest of us have known since 2016.
[…] first block of your comment […]
I -already- said I am acutely aware of recent developments. We disagree. Russia is not capable, India is unstable, and China is likely to let Russia fail as they essentially already have been. World war is absolute suicide for the human race.
I am not saying to ban other social media, I am saying as a cornerstone of democracy, we need to be able to have forums with our government in official and secure ways, that we can track, and sue over free speech violations. We cannot do that with private companies including private servers. You can just get banned and silenced. Further, we should have streamlined ways of getting government notices, recalls, and contacting our officials. No upvotes or ads allowed.
If I trusted my government, I’d be more inclined to agree with you. I’ve been lied to and gaslit far too much. My government didn’t represent my interests or the interests of the American people even under Obama. Centralized power structures are literally the problem causing every single thing we are talking about, for the most part.
so we DON’T have power
Let’s organize a vote of no confidence outside of our election system to depose our government because it’s all kinds of fucked up.
No, you don’t manage my feelings, and further, your edits messed with my other comment and made it reset. So I think I get to be annoyed that it cost me an extra 15min of my life trying to tell you stuff that you couldve googled yourself because you’re so geopolitically ignorant.
You edited your initial response to me after posting. I caught your comment before you finished.
Linking me documentaries and books instead of direct, primary sources does not respect my time.
Russia has been capable for a decade now and again, has been propped up by China including the use of NK.
Suicide for the human race? Duh. And that’s climate change. They want to reduce the carrying capacity of the earth because they cannot figure out other ways. Already huge catastrophic floods in China. Farming and food will take a hit soon.
Then don’t use it. Just like we have a post office, and UPS. But you need communications to be centralized somewhat lol, that’s how communcation works. You also wouldn’t say anything on there you wouldn’t say in a Town Hall, it would be your official profile. The power structure also wouldn’t be as centralized as regular social media- that’s why you can sue and demand things, based on constitution and bill of rights and other laws. That means you actually have ppwer over it.
There’s no legal way for us to depose the government or even to suggest to depose the government. I would never organize to depose the government.
Linking me documentaries instead of primary sources does not respect my time.
I never removed that. Repsect your time? How about respect your blatant ignorance? Complicated topics cannot be summarized in a Tweet or Lemmy post, they take time like books, long form media, or yes, documentaries and news interviews, gasp. Not everything is so simple, sorry kiddo. And the documentary interviews primary sources like Hillary Clinton and John McCain. The documentary IS a primary source. You’d know that if you’d just watch it. It’s free on Youtube and has been linked. How intellectually pathetic of you, as I suspected you’d be.
What’s so insidious about russia’s psiop over the last few decades is that all they’ve done is gently nudge the dial. They’ve sown distrust of traditional media and of democratic institutions, they’ve polarised discourse to that communities that mostly rubbed alongside one another reasonably well now are so idealogically opposed to each other that the middle ground has evaporated.
And if you think “haha stupid MAGAs” falling for propaganda, I got news for you buddy, you’ve fallen for it too.
You’ve fallen for propaganda that convinces you that there is an external enemy to worry about instead of actually looking at the situation critically. Right-wing organizations drive right-wing talking points.
They’ve sown distrust of traditional media and of democratic institutions
Pretty sure they did that to themselves. I didn’t need Russia feeding me propaganda to see through the bullshit, and many others reached that conclusion on their own. The Fairness Doctrine being repealed is one big reason why traditional media failed. Russia didn’t do that.
they’ve polarised discourse to that communities that mostly rubbed alongside one another reasonably well now are so idealogically opposed to each other that the middle ground has evaporated.
Right-wingers and liberals alike have polarized discourse. Leftists aren’t innocent either, especially MLs (many of whom seem to be biased towards Russia), but there are plenty of leftists I have interacted with or witnessed that are exceedingly fair, empathetic, and human.
Liberals blame anybody to the left of them for not falling in line, constantly mock or berate them for demanding better, and do absolutely nothing meaningful to improve their preferred party or seriously advocate for greatly improving the human condition in America. As for the right, we all know what they do.
middle ground has evaporated.
Politics and governance shouldn’t be a game of tug of war where the Republicans have a monster truck pulling their side and Democrats are pretending to hold the rope on their side. It shouldn’t be a tug of war game at all - that is what breeds polarization. It shouldn’t surprise anyone that a two-party system and biased, partisan “news” (that is literally entertainment) results in polarization.
This is all kinda my point. It’s not like Putin is just broadcasting stuff at the West. Wherever there’s discussions happening online, Russia helps amplify divisive messages and the algorithms do the rest.
Sure the talking points come from bad actors in the West but Russia are and have been quietly manipulating all the conversation around all of it. And yes they do it to conversations on the left and the right.
This is all kinda my point
Saying I am propagandized with zero evidence or good faith argumentation does not prove your point - the ball is in your court to prove that I am propagandized.
Wherever there’s discussions happening online, Russia helps amplify divisive messages and the algorithms do the rest.
Social media is largely US-owned and controlled. The algorithms could literally not exist, instead there be chronological or random ordering of posts and comments + auditable, fair moderation. Forums had their issues, but they were more fair platforms for discourse. Voting systems could literally not count for anything significant and not weight posts and comments over others.
Social media of the type that you are mainly referring to (where discussions happen in earnest) are a niche. Russia is not largely pushing right-wing talking points and polarization in a general sense - advertisers, right-wing organizations, liberal organizations, and social media companies are. And it isn’t a secret or a conspiracy - social media companies create and control their platforms (including their algorithms) and partisan politics and media are constantly fanning the flame.
From Wikipedia on the repeal of the Fairness Doctrine:
The demise of this FCC rule has been cited as a contributing factor in the rising level of party polarization in the United States.[5][6]
Party or political polarization in the US is not primarily driven by Russia. It’s our system and we can take responsibility for it instead of blaming Russia for everything.
They haven’t been on russias payroll for years.
They genuinely believe the shit they swill. By and large the paid agents were 5 to 10 years ago.
deleted by creator
If you look into it an amazing amount of them are further funded by Russia. Not solely but enough to make them bigger than they’d be otherwise.
If you look into it an amazing amount of them are further funded by Russia.
You seem to know more than me based on your response. You are claiming an amazing amount are funded by Russia, are there any decently recent sources which support your claim that you can direct me to? Do these people also take money from US-based right-wing organizations?
Yeah, I don’t think they need to be on Russia’s payroll anymore. They’re in deep.
How is Russia controlling their talking points now? I’m responding to the OP’s meme. Is everybody on the right threatened, blackmailed, or are otherwise under duress? We know they aren’t the most intelligent bunch, but they are being traitors for their own reasons - for the most part.
The major talking points mostly came from the aforementioned organizations and outlets even when some of these people were being paid.
Huh? My point was that the people are pushing the insane bullshit on their own accord now because they believe it
What are some major talking points that Russia seeded in their heads that persist to this day or overtly inspire some of the right-wing talking points we presently see? The people on the right are pro-American in their minds - many likely believe they are more pro-American than anybody else.
Damn… I’m desperate, but even I wouldn’t suck that
I personally like to listen to both sides of the story so that I can absorb 2x the disinformation
Russia and China have been manipulating discourse in the US since 2016; and American media is happy to let them.
I only trust cats :3
I see you’re in the (warm furry pockets) of big cat!
I’m not entirely sure why all of this is being blamed on Russian propaganda. To me, that seems like a lame excuse for the US getting itself into this mess.
In any case, there will certainly be no mysterious agents coming to rescue you from your self-imposed fascism. You’ll have to do that yourselves, so I would strongly recommend that you stop assigning blame and finally do something—otherwise, you won’t be able to post on Lemmy anymore because you’ll be brought into line by the state—then you could complain about Russian conditions, if that were still possible.
You don’t know why because you are PROFOUNDLY uneducated about it or you’re a Russian bot yourself (ps most bots are human slaves, not robots).
Here’s a documentary from 2018 with McCain and Clinton: https://youtu.be/5umiMThrlsA
There’s also the book American Kompromat by Unger that goes into SUBSTANTIAL detail for DECADES and shows how Russia has been accruing blackmail globally.
And then multiple protests globally (Romania, Georgia, Slovakia, Serbia) regarding online Russian interference plus many many memos including from our own government.
https://home.treasury.gov/news/press-releases/jy2766
Russia has engaged in MASSIVE MASSIVE online warfare, including on Lemmy (eg, you, maybe). It’s more effective than bullets and biowarfare in some ways. Idk how you can’t see how big of a deal it is.
The best propaganda takes advantage of flaws already present in a culture, it doesn’t try to create new ones
